craps house edge question

GrassHopperAA · #1 09-24-2007, 07:21 PM

If you buy the ten for 25 dollars, what's the edge?

Buying the ten for 25 dollars, when you win you pay 1 dollar commission.

I calculate 1.32 percent, but I'm not sure if I'm correct.

FearIt · #2 09-24-2007, 11:54 PM

You bought the odds. They pay at true odds now so the edge is zero. But keep in mind you lost the money you bought the odds with.

At least from what I understand the definition of buying to be. (Craps isn't my game)

SheetWise · #3 09-25-2007, 12:24 AM

Normally the breakage goes to the house -- but if you can buy the 4/10 for $25, and only pay $1 vig when you win, then your expectation for the $25 is $25. You will pay $1 once for every time you lose twice.

You should expect to win 3 times and lose 6 times every 36 rolls -- so you will lose $3 every 36 rolls.

So -- you could look at it using only the 9 rolls that make a decision. Your total handle in those 9 rolls will be $225.

Winners (3 * [50-1])
less losers (6 * 25)

= (3 * [50-1]) - (6 * 25) = (147 - 150) = -3

The 9 decisions should take 36 rolls, so you can count it any way you want.

You've lost 3 units in 9 decisions which took 36 trials. Your handle is $225, so your loss rate is 3/225.

3/225 = .013333

mhcmarty · #4 09-30-2007, 07:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
only pay $1 vig when you win.

[/ QUOTE ]

How difficult is it to find a house on the strip in LV that allows you to pay the vig when you win. I know the Boyd properties downtown do this. Some places make you pay the $1 to book the 4/10.

SheetWise · #5 10-01-2007, 10:39 AM

It's a variation in a competitive craps environment like LV -- I have no idea how common it is, as I don't make buy bets.

I'm not aware of clubs that don't charge a vig on a partial wager -- I would charge a $2 vig on a $25 buy 4/10. If that can be pushed to $35, that's news to me -- but, then again, I don't make buy bets. If that's a common variation, and it means you can lay $70 for $35 on a 4/10 for $1 vig only when you win -- that's a nice change-up play.

mingorama · #6 10-01-2007, 07:09 PM

Vegas is unique in that you pay for the "buy" once you hit. Most other places you have to pay up front. From my recollection, you can buy for $1 up to $35 on the 4/10, and you might as well max it out if you can.

SheetWise · #7 10-02-2007, 12:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
... you can buy for $1 up to $35 on the 4/10 ...

[/ QUOTE ]
I find that really interesting. As long as they're paying in dollar units, I wonder why it's not $39?

Does anyone know if this applies to minimum wagers only? Can you, on higher minimum tables for example, wager seven quarters and pay a $5 vig? Or nine hundred and pay a quarter? Is it based on units, table minimums -- or is it just the $15 break?

BigBluffer · #8 10-02-2007, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Normally the breakage goes to the house -- but if you can buy the 4/10 for $25, and only pay $1 vig when you win, then your expectation for the $25 is $25. You will pay $1 once for every time you lose twice.

You should expect to win 3 times and lose 6 times every 36 rolls -- so you will lose $3 every 36 rolls.

So -- you could look at it using only the 9 rolls that make a decision. Your total handle in those 9 rolls will be $225.

Winners (3 * [50-1])
less losers (6 * 25)

= (3 * [50-1]) - (6 * 25) = (147 - 150) = -3

The 9 decisions should take 36 rolls, so you can count it any way you want.

You've lost 3 units in 9 decisions which took 36 trials. Your handle is $225, so your loss rate is 3/225.

3/225 = .013333

[/ QUOTE ]

So if the house allows a $35 buy, taking only $1 juice when I win, would the house edge be only 0.952%?

Win = 3*(70-1) = 207
Lose = 6*35 = 210
Net = -3
Total Bet = 9*35 = 315
House Edge = (-3)/315 = 0.952%

Better than a pass line bet (ignoring so-called "free odds").

Jimbo · #9 10-03-2007, 12:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So if the house allows a $35 buy, taking only $1 juice when I win, would the house edge be only 0.952%?

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct as long as the vig is payed on a win and not upfront.

Jimbo

SheetWise · #10 10-03-2007, 01:16 AM

They're getting it right -- which is news to me.

I worked player/dealer/box/pit/sky/owner in the 70's and 80's -- so my perspective is a bit dated. Yet -- I've continued playing. This variation -- though little more than a cover play -- is new to me.

As I understand it the commission is ignored on the vig less than a table unit (e.g. $1). This isn't an advantage -- it's simply a "non-disadvantage" whose benefit is reduced in scale. It appears to me that this play would be good cover play for any bettor where the break of the "vig-free" win applied.