WTF

ILOVEPOKER929 · #1 09-22-2007, 09:33 AM

15-30 online game.

Superfish(67/20/.7) open limps in CO, Aggressive player (41/31/1.3) raises on the BTN, I 3bet with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the BB. Both players call.

Flop comes out 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, Superfish calls, Aggressive player raises, I call, Superfish calls.

Turn is a 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and everybody checks.

River card is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I check, superfish checks, aggressive player bets. WTF?

What would you do here and why?

TheWunderkind · #2 09-22-2007, 11:04 AM

If the Turn wasnt a missclick I dont see how ur beat.

TheWunderkind · #3 09-22-2007, 11:06 AM

So I call because i dont see any reason why an aggro player with this stats would check the Turn with a made Hand.

I also dont see why he bets this River with a worse but hes aggro so this makes more sense then the other way.

jba · #4 09-22-2007, 12:26 PM

looks like a spot to value bluff c/r

there's so little chance that you are behind that it is almost never a EV- play (but could be less EV than simply calling but IMO that should be what this thread is about). I dunno maybe it's a waste but I really think people can fold a 3 or a 4 here especially dumb fish that can't read hands. so there's a good thing that could happen. he's probably not going to overcall with a hand that you beat so it's never a bad thing if he folds. Also, you are so far ahead of the aggrodonk and your line is so ridiculously stupid on its face that I think there's an ok chance he calls with a worse hand.

veganmav · #5 09-22-2007, 12:43 PM

yeah, I definately cr this river.
He folds a better hand occasionaly, he calls a worse hand occasionaly, and most often everyone folds, you don't get to see what they had and you don't give a [censored], ship the pot nh sir.

joker122 · #6 09-22-2007, 02:36 PM

what about the fact then when you cr the river your line makes no sense? if i were villian i wouldn't be folding a pair to a cr so calling seems better to me.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #7 09-22-2007, 03:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, I definately cr this river.
He folds a better hand occasionaly, he calls a worse hand occasionaly, and most often everyone folds, you don't get to see what they had and you don't give a [censored], ship the pot nh sir.

[/ QUOTE ]

Veg and Jba, If we checkraise river, and fish folds and aggressive guy 3bets are we calling?

MAxx · #8 09-22-2007, 03:12 PM

I suppose he could have a moment of weakness and raise the flop with a little pair but not bet the turn as he is afraid of your cr and wants to showdown cheap. However, that is very unlikely and the most likely scenario is that he thinks he can buy the pot on the river after everyone has shown so much weakness on the late streats.

Call and take the pot down. I disagree with a cr.

Heisenb3rg · #9 09-22-2007, 06:02 PM

Unless the person had a timing tell, there is literally no made hands in a good players range right now that can be betting for value.

That being said some bad players would check behind a pair here being afraid of a check raise.
However, people bad enough to do so, would also be bad enough to not realize they cant represent the 9 once they check the turn... Therefore, they would likely bet it with one of MANY missed draws as well as the checked behind pairs.
I think folding is pretty bad for this reason.

Now superfishes range is probabily any two cards, weighted slightly towards high cards AND AWAY from pairs of 4/3.. (probabily folding 84 and such). So like 80%+ of the time here he doesnt have a hand that can call even one bet.

Since I can certiantly see the agressive player having a pair here 20%+ of the time (maybe even a 9), I really question if the checkraise is worth it... But I do it cause its fun to be trixy... and the satisfcation of inducing a 3-bet bluff would be all worth it..

One thing to consider... is he could 3-bet bluff so frequetnly that this raise could be for value to induce a 3-bet bluff...
Although a 1.3 AF doesnt indicate this level of agression.

TheHip41 · #10 09-22-2007, 10:42 PM

uh, this button lagfish can't have a pair. HE's not checking a monster here either. I don't get how we are losing.

I think we are beating the button almost always. I'm just worried about the fish. I think we should c/r to get that guy to fold if he's ahead of us. Weird spot.