Easy way to play 88 UTG here?

[NicksDad1970]

Ok like 90+ people starting down to 18 and it pays 10.

I have like 15k chips (a lil more than average) and this is my very first hand at the table. This is one of those weekly tourneys at the Gold Strike in Tunica with 20 min blinds.

Blinds are 800/1600 blinds 300 antes. I'm UTG and the BB is all in with his last 1600.

I had 2 red 8's what do I do? Like I said 1st hand so no reads except 3 of the guys were at my first table of the day and they were all pretty passive.

FWIW noone was really desperate low on chips besides BB fella.

I don't want to say what I did or why I did it in particularly in a hand like this. But I'd love some feedback.

[littlekeed]

Isn't this a standard push?

[erc007]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok like 90+ people starting down to 18 and it pays 10.

I have like 15k chips (a lil more than average) and this is my very first hand at the table. This is one of those weekly tourneys at the Gold Strike in Tunica with 20 min blinds.

Blinds are 800/1600 blinds 300 antes. I'm UTG and the BB is all in with his last 1600.

I had 2 red 8's what do I do? Like I said 1st hand so no reads except 3 of the guys were at my first table of the day and they were all pretty passive.

FWIW noone was really desperate low on chips besides BB fella.

I don't want to say what I did or why I did it in particularly in a hand like this. But I'd love some feedback.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as u don't fold here, you prob didn't make a mistake. Either shove or make it 4800/call RR, or open-shove any flop if flatcalled.

[Vetgirig]

[ QUOTE ]

I have like 15k chips (a lil more than average)
...

Blinds are 800/1600 blinds 300 antes. I'm UTG and the BB is all in with his last 1600.

I had 2 red 8's what do I do? Like I said 1st hand so no reads except 3 of the guys were at my first table of the day and they were all pretty passive.

FWIW noone was really desperate low on chips besides BB fella.



[/ QUOTE ]

You got less than 10BB and have above average and noone is low on chips ? BUT you got an M=3 ??? And has above average stack ?

Sorry dont compute. It looks like EVERYONE is low on chips and should be desperate. Yes, even you! You only have like 25 hands before being anted out. In 3 hands you will have lost 800+1600+3*300 = 3600 of your chips to ante and blinds. Thats 1/4 of your stack!

With an M=3 you should push it all in with 88 UTG!

[NicksDad1970]

I'm only guessing here but this seems to be the way these type tourneys go all the time. You hear how people complian that it's a pushfest at WPT FT's. Well it's worse here. So TBH I think there's a few other things to look at than what you guys are saying/

Please understand I realize I may be wrong here I was the one asking for your advice.

One of the reasons I can say that a push isn't as strong of a move as some might think is after one more orbit there's bound to be 5+ less people. then some tighten up real good.

Like i said please think about it again and tell me if you're thoughts are the same.

[donquay]

from the sound of it, you're trying to rationalize that a fold is good so you can fold for another orbit and get closer to the money, right?

it's that exact line of thinking that makes a shove here good (other players are probably being nitty enough to fold strong hands so they can get closer to cashing too). even though you're above average chips, you're still short to the point where blinds/antes are a big deal.

I don't know what the story is with the BB but how the heck did he end up having just enough chips to cover the blind? Either he just lost a big pot his previous hand or he blinded/anted off into nothingness which could indicate players at the tourney aren't just tight, they're tight beyond stupidity. More of a case to be shoving to get more chips.

[betgo]

Yeh, I am not into folding into the money, but why make an EV- play, pushing into the whole table to isolate?

[donquay]

betgo,

my post was directed at OP who seems like he was trying to rationalize folding for the hope that in an orbit he'd be 5 people closer to the money, not because a shove in this case has no FE against the BB

[betgo]

I would probably fold, because you are UTG and the BB is allin. Pushing isn't worth it if you can't steal.

[betgo]

If you push and isolate, you are 69% against a random hand. There will be 6700 in the pot, so your expected gain is 3000.

There are 7 players to act. Let us assume that JJ-AA and AQs, AK are calling. Assume for simplification only one caller and caller has you covered.

You are 28.5% to win the main pot and 35% to win the side pot. The main pot is 8300 and your expected win is 2365. The side pot has 26800 and your expected in is 9380. Total expected win if called is 11740. Total net loss if called is 3360.

The calling range I gave happens 22/661 of the time for each player, so 154/661 for 7 players, less with some duplication, so you get called about 22% of the time.

So assuming a tight calling range, the push is clearly cEV+ compared to folding. I think this is an accurate range due to the bubble and the push looking stronger with the BB allin.

I am not certain whether limping or miniraising is better than pushing, but I was wrong previously, folding is bad, even with the BB allin.

The push is only playable here because the large ante live gives you a big expected gain by isolating even if you don't steal.