25/50 KK Facing Turn Donkbet

Equal · #1 09-11-2007, 01:09 AM

$25/$50 No Limit Holdem
8 players

Stacks:
UTG ($5570.60)
UTG 1 ($11655.00)
MP1 ($2370.00)
MP2 ($375.00)
CO ($9273.62)
BTN ($4900.00)
SB ($16950.00)
Hero ($5000.00)

Pre-flop: ($75, 8 players) Hero is BB K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
6 folds, SB calls $25, Hero raises to $200, SB calls $150

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($400, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $350, SB calls $350

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1100, 2 players)
SB bets $605, $605 to Hero ($4450)?

Villain is a winning regular TAG. How do you interpret this donkbet? He's not one to donkbet. Also, the SB open-complete seems fairly unusual.

cts · #2 09-11-2007, 01:18 AM

not quite sure how i'd interpret it but i'd def call and go from there

Apathy · #3 09-11-2007, 04:03 AM

I think you're ahead of his 1 pair hand a lot but calling is still best for value reasons and has lots of other benifits this deep with you having Kd

Equal · #4 09-11-2007, 04:14 AM

Okay, call is what I did, let's move on. If someone wants to talk about folding or raising they can.

Pre-flop: ($75, 8 players) Hero is BB K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
6 folds, SB calls $25, Hero raises to $200, SB calls $150

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($400, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $350, SB calls $350

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1100, 2 players)
SB bets $605, Hero calls $605

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2310, 2 players)
SB bets $1727, $1727 to Hero ($3845)?

Pot odds: 1727 to win 4k. Need to win when calling >30% of the time.

jlocdog · #5 09-11-2007, 04:40 AM

If your view on him is very good, I would call. Bet sizing seems like a well played 'next level' type bet. I know, I know, that makes no sense.......but its true.

Against a 'standard tag' this seems like a fold accompanied with a loud obsenity laced diatribe...

edit- nice job on making the right decision on the turn btw.

Equal · #6 09-11-2007, 04:48 AM

BTW, I think there's a good argument for folding to the turn bet. Think about when you yourself are OOP on the turn and river, and when you donkbet. It's usually because you made your hand and either 1) on the turn, want to protect your hand/make sure the opponent doesnt take a free river card, or 2) on the river you hit and want to get some value as you fear villain will check behind to showdown.

Now the turn here is particularly bad as it makes both the flush and the OESD.

If he has a flush, we cant profitably call the turn bet. The straight is a little more murky, but a turn call is also probably -EV. I'm just eyeballing the numbers - if someone wants to run the numbers in these situations to confirm, thatd be awesome.

Kirkrrr · #7 09-11-2007, 05:24 AM

It's BB vs SB in what I'm sure is a very aggro game, no way would I fold river here. Turn call is obviously fine and just folding when he bets, especially with the Kd, seems sickeningly weak. The #1 argument for calling is that your hand looks like any high K/Ad hand, not necessarily a big pair, so if Villain doesn't know he's up against a huge hand he'll be betting a lot more aggressively in general.

cliff notes: i'd call.

Kirk

king_of_drafts · #8 09-11-2007, 05:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I think there's a good argument for folding to the turn bet. Think about when you yourself are OOP on the turn and river, and when you donkbet. It's usually because you made your hand and either 1) on the turn, want to protect your hand/make sure the opponent doesnt take a free river card, or 2) on the river you hit and want to get some value as you fear villain will check behind to showdown.

Now the turn here is particularly bad as it makes both the flush and the OESD.

If he has a flush, we cant profitably call the turn bet. The straight is a little more murky, but a turn call is also probably -EV. I'm just eyeballing the numbers - if someone wants to run the numbers in these situations to confirm, thatd be awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like you are overthinking it, turn is super standard call

bigt439 · #9 09-11-2007, 12:15 PM

call turn, fold riv.

both seem relatively standard with given info.

teddyFBI · #10 09-12-2007, 01:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
call turn, fold riv.

both seem relatively standard with given info.

[/ QUOTE ]