Small Pocket Pairs?

[Shaqizzle]

Just need a refresher, So with low PP, I usually raise 3xbb then hope that a set comes out or low cards.

But do most people just fold them if lots of high cards on the board, and a bet in front of them?

I'm just curious because I literally just got 5 hand in a row ranging from pocket 4's to pocket jacks.

[GoDownSwingn]

With small pocket pairs I think the general idea is to keep the pot small and try and hit your set. Raising with a low pair out of position not only makes you vulnerable to a position reraise, but if you don't hit your set chances are you're not going to win the pot. Position really helps with pairs as you can limp without the fear of a reraise.

Try getting into the hand with a multi-way small pot and hope for the set. Good chance to get paid off if you do.

[rodders133]

I would never raise with a small to med pp in early pos. If i limped and there was a raise behind me I would evaluate the price i was getting to call, and most importantly my opponents stack size. If the raise came from a low stack, I would probably muck. If it was from a stack equal to or greater than my own, i would be more inclined to call, as, if he was raising with a legitimate hand you could quite well take his whole stack if you hit your set. My own rule of thumb is that if 2 or more overcards come on the flop, I am done with the hand

[lucky_mf]

I think that it depends what sort of games you are playing. If it is a more aggressive game you are just not going to be able to limp profitably. In this case raising is probably better than folding, depending on the players in the game and their tendencies. Raising provides the additional benefit of broadening your early position raising range, making it somewhat more likely that you will get action when you raise your premium hands UTG (this only matters if people are paying attention). If you are playing a passive game with very little pre-flop raising and lots of people seeing the flop, you can probably limp profitably.

Lucky

Edit: Even in an aggressive game over-limping with pps is fine. Typically you don't want to raise an early position limper with 44.

[thoman8r]

It's important to know whether OP is talking about 6-max or full ring, because they are totally different situations.

6-max you should be open-raising any pocket pair from any position.

As far as what to do post-flop when you whiff, it depends a lot on your position, reads on your opponents, the texture of the board, and how many opponents you are up against. At micro limits, I am pretty much betting 100% of the time on K-x-x flops against 1 or 2 opponents. On A-x-x flops I may check or bet depending on the villain. If I am bet into here I am usually through with the hand, absent a strong read on the villain.

[lucky_mf]

[ QUOTE ]
6-max you should be open-raising any pocket pair from any position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure this will get an inexperienced player in trouble in some games - maybe even a typical micro limit game.

Example: Fishy micro-stakes game. You raise 33 UTG to 4bb and get two callers. The flop comes 4 8 2 rainbow. You bet and get a caller. The problem is that you have no idea whether your 3s are best as the players you are playing against are likely to call your continuation bet with anything. Now you have to decide whether to bet again or to check try and check down two streets - what do you do if the guy bets on the river after two more non-scary cards?.

These hands require some skill and the right type of table to raise unconditionally. At this type of super-fishy table you don't need the raise to sweeten the pot so it is easier to play for stacks when you hit a set. If the other players make a decent hand they are stacking off. Additionally, you don't need to raise to preempt a raise as the guys behind you are fairly passive pre-flop generally.

Lucky

[thoman8r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
6-max you should be open-raising any pocket pair from any position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure this will get an inexperienced player in trouble in some games - maybe even a typical micro limit game.

Example: Fishy micro-stakes game. You raise 33 UTG to 4bb and get two callers. The flop comes 4 8 2 rainbow. You bet and get a caller. The problem is that you have no idea whether your 3s are best as the players you are playing against are likely to call your continuation bet with anything. Now you have to decide whether to bet again or to check try and check down two streets - what do you do if the guy bets on the river after two more non-scary cards?.

These hands require some skill and the right type of table to raise unconditionally. At this type of super-fishy table you don't need the raise to sweeten the pot so it is easier to play for stacks when you hit a set. If the other players make a decent hand they are stacking off. Additionally, you don't need to raise to preempt a raise as the guys behind you are fairly passive pre-flop generally.

Lucky

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I think raising makes the hand easier to play. At micro limits (at least the 10NL tables I play at), you are going to take down the blinds a good percentage of the time, get maybe 1 or 2 callers a decent percentage, and get re-raised very infrequently (and when you do get re-raised, often it is an amount that allows you to call for implied odds). On an 8-4-2 flop I'll c-bet 100% of the time and usually take it down. Yes, if I get a caller I have to make a decision but a lot of times a typical 10NL donk will lead out for a very small amount if checked to (1/5 of the pot or even less) and you can usually get to a showdown cheap. If they actually make a real bet you can fold the hand confidently.

[gotmarc]

I think the answer always depends. Sets on different boards have different values, A two tone board is more dangerous than a rainbow board. I don't find that people fold when there are a couple of high card out there. IF the board is ragged(unlikely to have hit anyone) c-bet. THey probably don't have anything and your most likely protecting the best hand anyway.
If there's an Ace on the board and you have a set why not just "c-bet?" At least make people think you're c-betting. This is the spot you want to be in:
5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
against
A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
on a board of
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
People are more likely to play higher cards so they are more likely to hit the board when higher cards are out. This is what you are really aiming for, not only to hit your set. You want people with second best hands to hit the board as well. Ideally you want them to have two pair. People will give you there stack with two pair. Some even give it to you with one pair, but you can see what trouble they get into when they can't let go of these high cards.

[rodders133]

Gotmarc, I agree with your post, however, to be in that situation, wouldnt you say you would have had to call a raise that is too great to warrant your hand or a reraise if you were first raiser

[ahsfl]

This was brought up earlier. In a lot of cases, even with the reraise, you will have the implied odds to call. If they aren't they you can comfortably fold. I had started a similar thread to this a couple months back, and the rule of 10 and 5 was brought up. If the raise is no more than 5% of your effective stack, then you can call it in position. If its more than 10 you definetly fold, in between is a judgement call.