Why passive poker works fine, sometimes.

[mvdgaag]

I've been experimenting with passive fostflop lines recently and they've payed off nicely so far (although I don't have a statistically significant sample yet).

Big pots are for big hands, and TPTK is a midget. Even bottom two is often beat when we get a lot of action. So why bet out and win a small pot or get to be in a close fight for a big one when we can often win a medium pot instead?

When underrepresenting our hand to most player's agressive standards we are often a lot further ahead of our opponent's range. So instead of bloating the pot to see us win a small one on the flop or lose a big one a little less often than we win it, I like to be sure I'm ahead of my opponent's range while delaying any serious betting to later streets. This gives me the opportunity to get a better read and to grow a medium pot where we would otherwise have won a small one or would be in a tough fight for a big one.

Any thoughs?

[Super Tool]

Any examples?

[mvdgaag]

I raise the standard amount preflop with AK, one caller with position on me.

flop ($1) comes Ad8c4s I check, he checks
turn ($1) Qd, I check, he bets $0.8, I call.
river ($2.60) 8s, I bet $1.5, he calls and shows KQ.

I won a $5.60 pot where I'd normally would have won a $1 pot if I had bet out on the flop. This seems to happen often enough that it makes up for the little lost value when someone actually has a dominated ace.

[Gonso]

You can be a little passive at micro stakes

[nAim]

[ QUOTE ]
You can be a little passive at micro stakes

[/ QUOTE ]

True, especially because you can limp a lot hands on which will get you a lot draws that will be often paid out and increase your BB/100H by 2-6

And you get more money from this Hands if you play them passiv cause the opttopn of betting other Players out could often End in bad

[Super Tool]

I see... That line can work great sometimes, but I wouldnt base your entire style around it. Would work better with position as well.

[eastern motors]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise the standard amount preflop with AK, one caller with position on me.

flop ($1) comes Ad8c4s I check, he checks
turn ($1) Qd, I check, he bets $0.8, I call.
river ($2.60) 8s, I bet $1.5, he calls and shows KQ.

I won a $5.60 pot where I'd normally would have won a $1 pot if I had bet out on the flop. This seems to happen often enough that it makes up for the little lost value when someone actually has a dominated ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the stakes where this might actually work, the villains will be paying you off on all streets with A2o. You will lose a ton of value. I think this is terrible strategy. Your continuation bets are also going to lose credibility if you are checking top pair on the flop and turn.

[Buckk Dich]

Isn't this just slowplaying?

Slowplaying top pair is pretty much what you did, although it is passive play.

I think slowplaying is fine, but of course it has the obvious risks of being drawn out on.

[mvdgaag]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't this just slowplaying?

Slowplaying top pair is pretty much what you did, although it is passive play.

I think slowplaying is fine, but of course it has the obvious risks of being drawn out on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its similar to slowplaying. Only we have a hand not worth slowplaying, but also not worth of a big pot. So it's actually a form of potcontrol, which is an advantage here and a disadvantage when actually slowplaying. My opponents will let me know if I'm beat most of the time.

[mvdgaag]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise the standard amount preflop with AK, one caller with position on me.

flop ($1) comes Ad8c4s I check, he checks
turn ($1) Qd, I check, he bets $0.8, I call.
river ($2.60) 8s, I bet $1.5, he calls and shows KQ.

I won a $5.60 pot where I'd normally would have won a $1 pot if I had bet out on the flop. This seems to happen often enough that it makes up for the little lost value when someone actually has a dominated ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the stakes where this might actually work, the villains will be paying you off on all streets with A2o. You will lose a ton of value. I think this is terrible strategy. Your continuation bets are also going to lose credibility if you are checking top pair on the flop and turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly, most villains are not that stupid. Villains that call me down with anything, I bring to valuetown bigtime. I use this against villains that will fit or fold the flop, but call with weakish hands if they improve and don't put me on my hand. They suck out sometimes, but they'll let me know most of the time. I think this is more profitable overall than having them fold on the flop to a cbet.

Against villains that play well and/or on drawy flops I still make my normal cbets. I don't like to play a big pot with one pair unless I'm sure I'm getting payed off by worse hands and I've gotten used to checking the turn quite often for pot control.
We might as well check the flop to lose one street of betting. On the turn we have better equity against draws and a better read on our opponents. This works nicely together with the fact that some villains will pay off more loosely as described in the example.

My Cbetting is not losing credibility, because I keep the ratio bluffs/real hands about the same by cbetting less with air. My checks are getting more scary though and sometimes I can delay the cbet to the turn or actually improve on the turn.