3/6 B&M Possibly dominated overcards in a big pot

mikeca · #1 08-28-2007, 02:09 PM

Background: 9 handed B&M 3/6 game. I have been card dead for a long time in this mostly passive game and folding everything. A few aggressive players. I get KK, raised, one player points out that I am finally playing and they should fold, but they call anyway. I take down a medium pot with unimproved KK.

Capped pots preflop have been very rare in this game. I think this was the only one in the 4 hours I was at this table.

Villian in the BB in this hand is a young, aggressive player, maybe plays too many hands or has been getting good cards preflop. So far when he has raised preflop he has shown down good raising hands. He clearly raises with a lot more hands than most players in this game.

As I am stacking my chips, I look down at A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in middle position.

Three limpers that play 90% of hands, I raise hopping to fold as many as possible behind me, one fold, but rest call 2 cold, BB 3 bets, early limper caps it (kind of action player), I don't like it, but call 2 more. Two players after me fold, but rest call.

For many of the passive players in this game, a 3 bet from the BB can only mean AA or maybe KK, but I felt BB had a wider range than that. Still I’m worried most of that range dominates my hand. I figure the capper has any two cards.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6 Players, 26 SB

BB bets out, one fold, called around to me, I call, one fold, rest call.

I called because I was getting 28-1 or something like that. I’m not sure that my A outs are good, but it seemed the pot was just too big to fold. Given the read on BB, is this reasonable to call with just possibly dominated overcards?

Fnord · #2 08-28-2007, 02:38 PM

Pre-flop is probably a fold when it's 2 back to you, particularly if the BB is capable of paying attention.

Once you get there, you can't fold this flop for one small bet.

BigBadBabar · #3 08-28-2007, 02:39 PM

fold pf 2nd time
call flop

Scarmiglio · #4 08-28-2007, 03:17 PM

If your hand was suited, call pf. AJo not so much. You have to call on the flop. Your pot odd are huge.

jesse8888 · #5 08-28-2007, 03:19 PM

I agree you must call one on the flop. Preflop I think I agree you need to fold, but can't really fault you for calling. In that situation you're very likely to end up seeing 4 cards for 3 small bets, which sounds like it's over 10:1.

Calling can't be too much of a loser, but I have a question regarding image. If you fold this hand now, do you think it will make players more likely to re-raise you pf in the future? And if so, is this good or bad?

gobbledygeek · #6 08-28-2007, 03:20 PM

Preflop happens occasionally to me in my game; I get a bunch of limpers, I raise, I get a probably legitimate 3bet behind me and then one of the limpers caps making it two to me. But do I really have to fold given that limper who caps is usually doing so with a junk hand and is just capping cuz "it was gonna get capped anyways"? I always coldcall in this situation; bad?

And getting 28:1 I'm calling the flop without a second thought.

Fnord · #7 08-28-2007, 04:06 PM

It comes down to what range you think is being 3-bet and how that is going to effect your hand.

There are a lot of players in my pool who don't 3-bet AK & JJ.

mikeca · #8 08-28-2007, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It comes down to what range you think is being 3-bet and how that is going to effect your hand.

There are a lot of players in my pool who don't 3-bet AK & JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot of players in this game that don’t raise AK or JJ too. The BB was clearly not one of those players. I had seen him raise hands like that and even weaker.

mikeca · #9 08-28-2007, 04:52 PM

I must admit that the raise/fold preflop line is not one that I have ever used.

When the betting came back to me, it was clear this was going to be a big pot. There already were 20 SB or so in the pot. Now AJo is not a hand I want to play in a multi-way pot. That was why I raised in the first place, but it didn’t work this time.

I can never remember reading here or anywhere else a discussion of when this is the correct play and why.

Fnord · #10 08-28-2007, 04:58 PM

The guy who folded until he showed down KK just raised and this guy is in the Blinds. Do you think this will effect his re-raise range? Also, he's been showing "good" cards, could he just be on a rush of good starting hands? I'm not convinced that this is the ZOMG Bozo insta-call.