NFD faces a c/r

[Gib]

New to PLO.

Villain unknown.

Full Tilt Poker - Pot Limit Omaha Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $45.65
BB: $10.65
UTG: $14.60
Hero (MP): $32.50
CO: $26.40
BTN: $3.40

Preflop: Hero is dealt 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.85</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $0.75, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.55) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1.25</font>, SB folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $6.30</font>, Hero?

[Buzz]

Gib - Does Villain have the set of kings his bet must represent or not?

That is the question.

Since Villain is unknown we have no idea.

Meanwhile you're getting 2 to 1 pot odds while the odds against you winning, should Villain actually have the set of kings his bet must represent are about 1.88 to 1 against you (as simulated).

You do not have favorable odds to raise, if Villain actually does have the set of kings. However, you do have favorable odds to call.

So yes, I think you do call here. (1) Villain may be bluffing and (2) if not, you have favorable odds to call.

Call.

Buzz

[darkcore]

take a closer look at the stacksizes.

i'd pot the shorty all-in.

[Buzz]

darkcore - If you bet to put Shorty all-in, he will probably call. Right?

And if so, then you have less favorable odds. <ul type="square">Right now, Hero is you're getting almost two to one for his money (for the call). The pot size was $3.80 when Shorty shoved in $6.30, making the pot $10.10 and it will cost Hero $5.50 to call. Actually Hero is only getting 10.10/5.50 = 1.84 to 1 pot odds while the odds against making his hand are 1.88 to 1 (but Hero has implied pot odds, which more than make up the difference).

If this were a no-limit game and Shorty had been able to raise the rest of his stack ($8.80), then the pot size would be $12.60 and it would cost Hero $7.55 to call. In that case Hero would be getting 12.60/7.55 = 1.67 to 1 pot odds with no implied pot odds. With the odds against making his hand 1.88 to 1, Hero would not have favorable odds, if Villain truly has the set of kings his bet must represent.[/list]Can you see that by raising Shorty all-in, Hero is reducing his own pot odds from 1.84:1 to 1.67:1?

If Shorty was able to raise all-in to $8.80, then (with less favorable odds) Hero would simply have to guess as to whether Shorty was bluffing or not.

Assuming Shorty does have the set of kings, Hero is drawing to improve (mainly to a flush or trip aces, but also, to a much lesser extent to a full house/quads, or a straight). Any time you are drawing, you get the best odds by playing as cheaply as possible. That's a principle - like a law of nature - like the first law of thermodynamics (energy is conserved).

At any rate, it is absolutely incorrect for Hero to raise, but it is correct for Hero to call.

It's all about the odds to me. I play poker because, just like the casino, I can get the odds on my side. And somehow I get a kick out of doing that.

Buzz

[TheRempel]

Umm Buzz you are saying its correct for the hero to call because he's getting 1.84:1. This is not the correct price to see the turn if the villain can only have a set since OP is at best a 3.3:1 dog to the turn if the villain does indeed have a set. All just calling the flop does is make it look like you are getting the remainder of the villains stack in extremely favorably on the turn when in effect it's just putting good money in after bad.

If the villains range is only a set then OP should be folding to the flop raise. Of course this is purely academic since maybe 0.05% of players only ever raise the flop with a set against the PFR.

[RoundTower]

Buzz
you are not "priced in to call, but not to raise". Your pot odds are simply not favourable, if the guy has a set, to see only one more card which is all you get for the price of your call.

However if there is any chance the guy does not have a set, you have good pot odds to get it all in.

This is very basic stuff and should not need explaining to anyone who has played big bet poker.

[Buzz]

RoundTower - Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. Much appreciated from both you and The Rempel. It's clear to me that both of you guys are experts, and I am not.[ QUOTE ]
Your pot odds are simply not favorable, if the guy has a set, to see only one more card which is all you get for the price of your call.

[/ QUOTE ]You're right.

However, there is no guarantee he'll shove the rest of his stack in on the next betting round if you call.

You may be getting two cards for the price of one, and if so, you do have favorable implied pot odds to call.

And if the guy doesn't actually have a set, there are various hands he could have, such as two pairs, where he is the favorite, but you do have favorable odds to call, but not to raise.[ QUOTE ]
However if there is any chance the guy does not have a set, you have good pot odds to get it all in.

[/ QUOTE ]I strongly disagree. You simply get better odds here if you call.

[ QUOTE ]
This is very basic stuff...

[/ QUOTE ]Seems so to me also.[ QUOTE ]
... and should not need explaining to anyone who has played big bet poker.

[/ QUOTE ]It has nothing to do with big bet poker. This is not "big bet" poker.

Buzz

[Gib]

I did call &amp; I guess a part of that reason was due to BB being short-stacked therefore I would only face a small bet on turn.

However if he had me covered, say 2x as much can I still call &amp; re-eval on turn?

[TheRempel]

It depends. If he is only raising sets and will shut down if a non pairing spade or ace comes off then its definitely not profitable to call. If he is only raising sets but will pay you off then its a must call.

Against an average opponent that can easily be raising this flop with two pair and draws I have pretty crushed I push the flop for up to 300bb.

[TheRempel]

The stack sizes are extremely important. Since the villain only has $4 left after his raise calling would be bad since you would be committed to calling any turn bet regardless of what comes off (pot would be $16 or so with $4 behind). Calling accomplishes absolutely nothing in this spot.

Unless you can be dead certain that he is raising you with a set you have to just stick it in. The times you are a 7:3 dog will be more than made up for when the you have him in similar shape.