The micro pot limit omaha/8 personal challenge .10/.25pl

[Lord_Strife]

My account took some bad beats recently and I wasn't running very well. I got sick of playing limit cash games so I started playing some more pot limit h/l. My ADD prevents me from playing too many tables at once (both a joke and serious), so I dont like playing more than 3, but I feel that's my perfect number for small buyin pot limit games. I started multitabling .10/.25 and I've already had a great session so far, but obviously anything could happen. I have a few questions about this because I'm going to keep close track of my results to see my precise ability to beat this game (or maybe not?).

A close friend of mine and really good poker player has made two different comments about the game over the past year and they are as follows:
*Really good omaha and stud players will have less variance than good holdem players.
*Really good no limit/pot limit players will have less variance than good limit players.

I trust his opinions and I believe him. However, the second statement seems a little obscure to me and really doesnt make much sense. I definitely agree that stud and omaha players have less variance in general. So with this information availible, I am curious as to how many buyins for a pot limit omaha h/l game should I be looking at for optimal bankroll management. The numbers I've heard thrown around are as low as 10 to as many as 25, what do you feel is the right number for this game?

Another question I have is regarding showdown win percentage. I have heard that 70% showdown win percentage in holdem is very good, perhaps exceptionally good. What do you think is a good for the game at discussion? Since the game is h/l I think you're obligated to win more showdowns even if it's just for half the pot.

It is widely accepted that tight play is pretty much the only way to win at omaha h/l. So this is about how many flops you see. What is an appropriate flop seen percentage from the blinds? from out of the blinds? I consider myself much more loose than a lot of players, so I want to see how my percentages stack up against the "norm". Basically I've been playing successful omaha for a few years now and I've become very good at determining my opponents hands and I have a knack for playing marginal situations very well. So I've adapted to this and played pretty loosely because I want to get into as many flops as I can so I can figure out the action and figure out my cards to draw to and when to lay down certain hands.

Thanks in advance guys

So far my stats from tonight:

558 hands
69/75 flops seen from BB (92%)
40/75 from SB (53%)
133/408 from nonblinds (32%)
Pots won at showdown 54/86 (62%)
Pots won without showdown 51

So as you can see, I won 105 pots out of 558 I played, which is a pretty high percentage considering it is a 9 handed game pretty much the entire time. As of this second, my profit for tonight is looking like $158 which is translated into 6 buyins or infinite big blinds lol. I have $137 at one of my tables alone, and that was at 160 at one point. Anyways, it looking good so far, any advice is appreciated.

[dscottr17]

you're a donkey dude, you are a complete luckbox with no skills...

i'm sure you remember me, i was at your tables practically the whole night. in all seriousness you are a solid player, you were fortunate to hit a few of your draws in monster hands. i wasnt happy that you took all of the tilted moron's cash. i wanted some! i just couldnt get into any big hands with him.

i consider myself slightly above average (definitely on the passive side) and here are my numbers from tonight:

During current Omaha H/L session you were dealt 556 hands and saw flop:
- 48 out of 62 times while in big blind (77%)
- 41 out of 68 times while in small blind (60%)
- 118 out of 426 times in other positions (27%)
- a total of 207 out of 556 (37%)
Pots won at showdown - 36 of 52 (69%)
Pots won without showdown - 24

i won about $80 3 tabling just like you did at these small stakes. you are certainly more loose than me, but you seem to be a strong enough player post flop where you can play a few extra hands. what did you think of my play?

anyway, it was nice playing with you. take it easy.

[dscottr17]

Lorde Strife = donkey

[Mr_J]

I've heard stud has high variance??

I would think a TAG style at the typical loose&passive low limit PLO8 tables would have very low variance. You get to see flops cheaply, and most of the time you are piling money into a pot you will have a very large edge. Being less aggressive preflop also means the money going in on later streets, meaning less chance of being outdrawn. Not the most profitable approach, but much lower variance.

PLO8 you don't want to be winning half the pot. You want to be winning 3/4 or all of it. As for showdown %, it varies depending on style, and how your games are playing.

I'd be surprised if anyone suggested more than 20 buyins at low limit PLO8. From my limited experience at 25PL I'd be surprised if a good player at that level needed more than 15 buyins*.

Style of play. There are different ways to win at PLO8, and some will be more profitable than others, and some may not be profitable in certain types of games. A TAG style is always a good way to start.

All of this is just my opinion to give you something to think about until other people start posting some better and more specific advice.

My own experience:

I'm multitabling 25PL. I'm using a tight, passive preflop/agro postflop style. I'm playing fairly abc. I'm at around 9PTBB/100 over 5600 hands, and my standard deviation is around 27PTBB/100. I have made some silly mistakes (hopefully out of my system) which have cost me, and being passive preflop doesn't help my winrate. I also have almost no reads.

I think a blind, retarded monkey pressing random buttons could beat 25PL. There's nothing like it.

*seriously I can't imagine a decent player with a low variance style needing more than 1 buyin to get started at 25PL.

[Lord_Strife]

So as a follow up question, do the fish diminish that much when you move up to .25/.50, .5/1, and 1/2?

[RedBean]

Small world.. lots of familiar faces in here from this mornings session.

MJ, are you taking a breather from the SNGs to pick up PLO8? That is what I have been doing.

As for my experience, I've been going along the same path as you with TP preflop and aggro postflop, mainly because I haven't gotten a feeling on how to get more aggro PF without making huge mistakes now and then. I'm right on about 5100 hands with 8PTBB/100 and a SD of 29PTBB/100.

Question though, what is your VPIP on those 5600 hands, and just how tight is right pre-flop? MY VPIP is about 20%, and sometimes I get the feeling I am too tight for what is optimal.

[Mr_J]

[ QUOTE ]
MJ, are you taking a breather from the SNGs to pick up PLO8?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dunno. I really like the pace of PLO8 though and it feels like it suits me perfectly. I originally wanted to play LO8 but I found I sucked at that. Sngs pay well but I prefer cash games.

I have been picking up my preflop aggression, mainly when in good position.

I'm not happy with my VPIP either, and am just under 20%. It could just be variance in card distribution since my ep vpips vary quite alot.

I feel I'm not quite aggressive enough postflop. There have been quite a few times where I've felt I have missed value bets, ie I've had a mediocre holding but the action suggested I was ahead. I guess as I gain more experience and confidence I'll develop good judgement, and for now it will prevent any potential mistakes.

Might be good for me to use some table & player selection. I'm thinking my most important stat will be hands played, and to take notes on the regulars. W%SD will help select potential victims.

Also got to remember to not assume everyone is a moron (I don't think this has cost me though), and to not assume a well played hand or nut holding indicates a relatively good player.

I love the flexibility, strategy and information you get in PLO8. I love freerolling, 3/4ering etc. Nothing like freerolling a guy then scooping and watching him whinge that you outdrew him [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]

Dunno. I really like the pace of PLO8 though and it feels like it suits me perfectly. I originally wanted to play LO8 but I found I sucked at that. Sngs pay well but I prefer cash games.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exact same situation here, I made considerably more at the 55s than I am now on PLO8, but when I sit down to play, I just want to play PLO8 and nothing else.

[ QUOTE ]

Might be good for me to use some table & player selection. I'm thinking my most important stat will be hands played, and to take notes on the regulars. W%SD will help select potential victims.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking player selection is crucial. Pegging down guys who routinely make bad chases, overvalue their big pairs, and those who play the low-only to the hilt and get quartered frequently have been key for me so far.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
A close friend of mine and really good poker player has made two different comments about the game over the past year and they are as follows:
*Really good omaha and stud players will have less variance than good holdem players.
*Really good no limit/pot limit players will have less variance than good limit players.


[/ QUOTE ]
He must not be very good. Good thing you asked here first.

Stud has a much higher variance than HE. O8 has a much lower variance than HE.

As far as PLO8, which is what I assume you are talking about, no, I feel the variance is slightly higher in PLO8 than LO8. You can lower the variance playing like a rock and nut peddler (me), but due to the risk of losing your entire buy-in in one hand, I believe the variance is slightly higher.

As far as your stats go, you just aren't giving us enough hands. Anyone can do just about anything in the short term.

You sound very, very new. I would suggest reading Ray Zee's book and Bob Ciaffone's book. Then read through a lot of the posts here. Then start asking questions. Then start playing tens of thousands of hands. Things will be so much more clear for you after you have done that.

Good luck,

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[zizazziza]

sample size is way too small, i know you said ur not really going to keep track, but spend the $50 on buy PTO, its well worth it. On to variance:
Stud, from what i hear, has insane variance
O8 v PLO8: This really depends how you play each type. I went up and down 50BBs within 1/hr playing O8 last night where multi-tabling 3-4 PLO8 tables, I tend to have a vraince around +/- 1/2 buy-ins. I think it really depends on aggression for these games and how much you nut-peddle in them.

I think you are running hot right now and should not judge that you are "THE MAN" @ PLO8 because of it.