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#1
08-20-2007, 09:16 PM
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do you fold this turn?
Limit Holdem Ring game
9 players Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls. Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9.8SB, 7 players) SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds. Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.9BB, 4 players) SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls. River: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10.9BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls. Results: Final pot: 12.9BB no reads, was the 3rd hand... 
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#3
08-20-2007, 09:53 PM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
plz fold pre and raizeeeee flop.
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#4
08-20-2007, 10:03 PM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible ..
then thinking that you should just call the flop is also terrible ... and because you didn't raise the flop for value (you know have no idea what to do ... TUFF LUCK) and again ... what range of hands do you think a 'general player' in the games you play would do this with write them out ...
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#5
08-20-2007, 10:53 PM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
I don't fold QXs after 4 limpers which basically play poor offsuit hands like 76o-T9o, J7o-J9o etc. maybe it's marginal but it's certainly not terrible
the flop call is close and it's for sure not terrible, since there are only very few cards that can hurt this hand, raising will likely eliminate almost all opponents on this dry board, while calling might get 2-3 overcalls only reason to raise is to win the big pot right here, in a smaller pot, say 3 sb smaller it would be afwul to raise and knock them all out as for the range, try to come up with a range of a micro limit player who plays about 30%-40% of his hands and sometimes makes bogus moves in this situation I often see players do this with: 66+, or any 5 so it's almost impossible to put him on anything unless I have a good sample of hands, remember it's the 3rd hand I play this guy...
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#7
08-20-2007, 11:15 PM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible .. [/ QUOTE ] Hrmmm, I call it after 4 limpers... [ QUOTE ] It's not obvious to me that calling the flop is bad here [/ QUOTE ] I can't believe i'm going to say it, but I tend to agree.
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#8
08-21-2007, 12:01 AM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible .. [/ QUOTE ] Hrmmm, I call it after 4 limpers... [ QUOTE ] It's not obvious to me that calling the flop is bad here [/ QUOTE ] I can't believe i'm going to say it, but I tend to agree. [/ QUOTE ] hrmmmm ... yes ... i just did some stoving ... for various players ... came back with about about a few less points less the avg field member ... so yeah - not so bad (i did come back to say it was close) ... but would really need some passive types that payoff to make this worth playing IMO though ... I still think not raising the flop, in a game where the avg guy is 30-40 vpip (as op says), is pretty bad (those guys will call with a whole-lotta-nothing) <font color="red">EDIT</font> CR: op says guys are like 30-40 vpip ... that would play close to live yes - in a game that's features much tighter players I'm not raising ... but not when the players are of this type
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#9
08-21-2007, 02:35 PM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ummm ... Q5s otb is like ... terrible .. [/ QUOTE ] Hrmmm, I call it after 4 limpers... [/ QUOTE ] OK ... so - i've done some more stoving ... and if this you call this after 4loose limpers then your range is something like this all show about the same value (which is 2-3 points below the field average) 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J2s+,T2s+,92s+,82s+,72s+,62s+,5 2s+,42s+,32s,A2o+,K9o+,Q9o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,86o+,75 o+,64o+,54o that's over 60% ... there is no way you could see a profit playing this many hands there are a number of people here that have said ... if you are better than you opponents then Q4s could see a profit ... i seriously doubt that there are many players that are 'that' much 'better' then their competition <font color="red">edit</font> i'll play some junk suite hands ... but i only play them in one particular suite
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#10
08-20-2007, 11:18 PM
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Re: do you fold this turn?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't fold QXs after 4 limpers which basically play poor offsuit hands like 76o-T9o, J7o-J9o etc. maybe it's marginal but it's certainly not terrible [/ QUOTE ] well - yes, it's not terrible (but it's close ... perhaps you should run some stove to come up with some estimates) [ QUOTE ] the flop call is close and it's for sure not terrible, since there are only very few cards that can hurt this hand, raising will likely eliminate almost all opponents on this dry board, while calling might get 2-3 overcalls [/ QUOTE ] actually - i would say this is worse than PF ... those same players you mentioned in your first point will call for the same points you make here ... and the pot is sufficiently large [/ QUOTE ]as for the range, try to come up with a range of a micro limit player who plays about 30%-40% of his hands and sometimes makes bogus moves in this situation I often see players do this with: 66+, or any 5 so it's almost impossible to put him on anything unless I have a good sample of hands, remember it's the 3rd hand I play this guy... [/ QUOTE ] that's why I said a 'general player in the games you play' ... i have no idea what the players are like in the games you play (in the games I play, I can't make an rough estimate for a general player)
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