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#1
08-20-2007, 12:30 PM
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The Power of Nightmares.
I just finished watching "The Power of Nightmares" on google video. For those of you who haven't heard of it, it's a three-part miniseries that aired on BBC in 2004. It details the histories of the neoconservative movement within the executive branch of the U.S. government and of the Islamic jihadist movement dating back to the 1940s, and describes their use of the politics of fear to keep a population in check. All in all, very interesting stuff. Each episode is one hour, but I think that the third episode gives a good synopsis of the whole series, and has the most riveting content. ( here )
I would be interested in any thoughts those of you who have seen this series could offer, and would strongly urge anyone who hasn't seen it to take an hour and watch. 
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#3
08-20-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: The Power of Nightmares.
BBC
Bush Bashing Coporation Bagdad Broadcasting Corporation Bugger Blair Corporation All these names were given to it by memebrs of the Brit Military I used to work with. Honest professional men. BBC on the whole tends towards decent world coverage, but to even hint that they don't posess a serious anti-American (not just anti-Bush or neocon) bias would be the worst kind of head in the sand thinking. For those that haven't spent much time in The UK, Yank bashing is a kind of sport over there in any political discussion. Most do it in a friendly, "taking the piss out of you" way but BBC makes it a professional mission to take as many giant smelly [censored] on all things American.
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#4
08-20-2007, 05:47 PM
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Re: The Power of Nightmares.
That may be, but if what they say is true, the bashing seems justified. In the end of part three, they basically say that sporadic terrorism from a greatly overestimated fringe group of radical Islam is not a threat to the health of any country as a whole, say the way that climate change is, and politicians are exaggerating the lesser dangers to grow and maintain power while ignoring the imminent ones. I agree with this, and it seems like amongst all the other Bush-bashing in the media, some of these startling facts are not discussed AT ALL, even though it would be the most credible avenue of dissent.
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#5
08-20-2007, 07:40 PM
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Re: The Power of Nightmares.
[ QUOTE ]
That may be, but if what they say is true, the bashing seems justified. In the end of part three, they basically say that sporadic terrorism from a greatly overestimated fringe group of radical Islam is not a threat to the health of any country as a whole , say the way that climate change is, and politicians are exaggerating the lesser dangers to grow and maintain power while ignoring the imminent ones. I agree with this, and it seems like amongst all the other Bush-bashing in the media, some of these startling facts are not discussed AT ALL, even though it would be the most credible avenue of dissent. [/ QUOTE ] What happened to our economy after 9-11? I would guess if they did something like that every few months, our country would suffer vast economic damage. (i guess how you define "sporadic" may be different than me, but 3-4 attacks per year would pretty much be my definition.) I realize most attacks are not of that scale, but to think countries can survive "sporadic" events that include multi billion dollar buildings being destroyed, tens of thousands of jobs being lost instantly, thousands dead in a matter of minutes, and the "uncertainty" of the markets after events like 9-11 is just plain dumb. America bounced back pretty quick after 9-11, but the public has a short memory. If we had gone into a 8-10 year depression after 9-11, a lot of people would still be very pissed off, and likely have different views on American policy. Based on some muslims I have heard, the "greatly overestimated" numbers of terrorists is complete crap. I tend to beleive the people who have escaped the middle east more than the psuedo-intellectuals who have never been there.
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#7
08-22-2007, 09:14 PM
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Re: The Power of Nightmares.
[ QUOTE ]
What happened to our economy after 9-11? I would guess if they did something like that every few months, our country would suffer vast economic damage. (i guess how you define "sporadic" may be different than me, but 3-4 attacks per year would pretty much be my definition.) [/ QUOTE ] If they did something like that every few months i would agree the documentary has no crediability. As they haven't maybe they are making some valid points. At least think about it. [ QUOTE ] I realize most attacks are not of that scale, but to think countries can survive "sporadic" events that include multi billion dollar buildings being destroyed, tens of thousands of jobs being lost instantly, thousands dead in a matter of minutes, and the "uncertainty" of the markets after events like 9-11 is just plain dumb. [/ QUOTE ] Do you realize that no other attack has been on that scale? Shock and awe may have come close [ QUOTE ] America bounced back pretty quick after 9-11, but the public has a short memory. [/ QUOTE ] Off course it did. Only emotionally did 911 have much impact on the US. [ QUOTE ] If we had gone into a 8-10 year depression after 9-11, a lot of people would still be very pissed off, and likely have different views on American policy. [/ QUOTE ] But you didn't. [ QUOTE ] Based on some muslims I have heard, the "greatly overestimated" numbers of terrorists is complete crap. I tend to beleive the people who have escaped the middle east more than the psuedo-intellectuals who have never been there. [/ QUOTE ] Sources?
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#8
08-22-2007, 07:22 AM
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Re: The Power of Nightmares.
[ QUOTE ]
BBC Bush Bashing Coporation Bagdad Broadcasting Corporation Bugger Blair Corporation All these names were given to it by memebrs of the Brit Military I used to work with. Honest professional men. BBC on the whole tends towards decent world coverage, but to even hint that they don't posess a serious anti-American (not just anti-Bush or neocon) bias would be the worst kind of head in the sand thinking. For those that haven't spent much time in The UK, Yank bashing is a kind of sport over there in any political discussion. Most do it in a friendly, "taking the piss out of you" way but BBC makes it a professional mission to take as many giant smelly [censored] on all things American. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. If they wanted to sell this to americans, they needed to use the actors from Heros, American Idol etc.
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#9
08-20-2007, 06:00 PM
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Re: The Power of Nightmares.
The biggest problem that I have with this film is its drawing of a moral equivalency between Islamists and Neo-Conservatives.
It is a very sublte assumption, but it's there. It is, in my mind, also contrived and baseless. The other part of the film that found completely laughable was the assertion that Al Queada is completely ficticious. The film-makers did make some interesting points and there is some food for thought there that is undeniable. However, they undermined their points with bad logic is many places. They frequently use subjectivism, Ad Hominem, Circular Reasoning, and Post Hoc, Ergo Proctor Hoc. Not to mention appeals to ignorance. It's been some time since I saw this film. I would love to take it apart bit by bit. However, this is a long and tedious process and would convince none of the believers in the end. So it's an exercise in futility. I put this documentary right up there with the Loose Change video.
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#10
08-20-2007, 06:42 PM
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Re: The Power of Nightmares.
[ QUOTE ]
The biggest problem that I have with this film is its drawing of a moral equivalency between Islamists and Neo-Conservatives. It is a very sublte assumption, but it's there. It is, in my mind, also contrived and baseless. [/ QUOTE ] Is it more or less "contrived and baseless", in your opinion, than the assertion of unilateral moral authority by the U.S.?
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