Another Race Question

[Taraz]

For those of you who think that race isn't socially constructed and that it is easy to classify people into these categories . . . Please list all the physical characteristics required to be considered a) black b) white c) latino d) east asian.

[madnak]

a) "you know what they say about black guys" b) can't jump c) kleptomania d) squinty eyes

[Mr_J]

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The validity of human races is a subject of much debate. The American Anthropological Association, drawing on biological research, states that "The concept of race is a social and cultural construction. . . . Race simply cannot be tested or proven scientifically," and that, "It is clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. The concept of 'race' has no validity . . . in the human species."

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85 percent of human variation occurs within populations, and not between populations

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This distribution of skin color and its geographic patterning—with people whose ancestors lived predominantly near the equator having darker skin than those with ancestors who lived predominantly in higher latitudes—indicate that this attribute has been under strong selective pressure. Darker skin appears to be strongly selected for in equatorial regions to prevent sunburn, skin cancer, the photolysis of folate, and damage to sweat glands

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many parts of the United States, categories such as Hispanic or Latino are viewed to constitute a race, though others see Hispanic as a linguistic and cultural grouping coming from a variety of backgrounds. In Europe, such a distinction, suggesting that South Europeans are not European or white, would seem odd at least or possibly even insulting.

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The problem arises of distinguishing black Africans as a racial group; it doesn't work because it is a paraphyletic classification. In other words, under a phylogenetic classification, considering black Africans as a single racial group would require one to include every living person on Earth within that single African "race", because the genetic variation of the rest of the world represents essentially a single subtree within that of Africa

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[allinrenco]

A blond guy makes his blond wife pregnant. Then to his big surprise, when the baby comes out it is completely black. The guy takes the baby to the dokter and asks: is it possible that this baby is not mine, but from somebody from another race?

The dokter thinks for a while, and then answers:

"well we cannot be absolutely sure ..."

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[ QUOTE ]
The validity of human races is a subject of much debate. The American Anthropological Association, drawing on biological research, states that "The concept of race is a social and cultural construction. . . . Race simply cannot be tested or proven scientifically," and that, "It is clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. The concept of 'race' has no validity . . . in the human species."

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"I see", the blond man says, "so maybe it is mine!"

"It is definetly a possibility" the dokter continues,

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85 percent of human variation occurs within populations, and not between populations

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This distribution of skin color and its geographic patterning—with people whose ancestors lived predominantly near the equator having darker skin than those with ancestors who lived predominantly in higher latitudes—indicate that this attribute has been under strong selective pressure. Darker skin appears to be strongly selected for in equatorial regions to prevent sunburn, skin cancer, the photolysis of folate, and damage to sweat glands

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"Ahah" the blond man says, "and since I am living in America.."

"Exactly" the dokter answers.

Then the blond man ask: "But is it maybe possibile that it is from a Latino?"

"Well", the dokter replies...

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many parts of the United States, categories such as Hispanic or Latino are viewed to constitute a race, though others see Hispanic as a linguistic and cultural grouping coming from a variety of backgrounds. In Europe, such a distinction, suggesting that South Europeans are not European or white, would seem odd at least or possibly even insulting.

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"Ok, then that is not really a possibility then", the blond man answers.

"No it is not", and he continues:

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The problem arises of distinguishing black Africans as a racial group; it doesn't work because it is a paraphyletic classification. In other words, under a phylogenetic classification, considering black Africans as a single racial group would require one to include every living person on Earth within that single African "race", because the genetic variation of the rest of the world represents essentially a single subtree within that of Africa

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[bunny]

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For those of you who think that race isn't socially constructed and that it is easy to classify people into these categories . . . Please list all the physical characteristics required to be considered a) black b) white c) latino d) east asian.

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Is this a problem to the argument if you just include a category "mixed"? It seems to me that, although it is hard to provide the list you are talking about, there are people who are indisputably black, latino, east asian, whatever category you choose to name. Given it is indisputable doesnt it suggest there is something objective about it?
(For example - Nancy Reagan is white - is anyone going to disagree with this characterization?)

[MidGe]

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(For example - Nancy Reagan is white - is anyone going to disagree with this characterization?)


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I would. The only way to be sure would be the have her genealogical tree. I could presume that at least in part she would have europeans antecedents. I that is so, then I think that 95% or more of the european population has semite blood somewhere along the line. Again, it is the concept of race that is not valid, not what she looks like.

[bunny]

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(For example - Nancy Reagan is white - is anyone going to disagree with this characterization?)


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I would. The only way to be sure would be the have her genealogical tree. I could presume that at least in part she would have europeans antecedents. I that is so, then I think that 95% or more of the european population has semite blood somewhere along the line. Again, it is the concept of race that is not valid, not what she looks like.

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First let me point out that I'm just speculating, I've never really thought about it before (and certainly never read anything). Would you really dispute her being white though? Or just say it's impossible to be sure? If you are disputing based on going back down her family tree, then it seems like everyone is the same race - whatever race mitochondrial eve was (cue Sharkey's entrance [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). I'll have to think more about it.

[purnell]

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First let me point out that I'm just speculating, I've never really thought about it before (and certainly never read anything). Would you really dispute her being white though?

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The point is that what we call "white" and "black" and "asian", etc, are merely superficial and arbitrary distinctions. What is generally called "race" has no meaning in a scientific context. That's why race is a social construct, instead of an objectively observable fact.

[bunny]

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The point is that what we call "white" and "black" and "asian", etc, are merely superficial and arbitrary distinctions. What is generally called "race" has no meaning in a scientific context. That's why race is a social construct, instead of an objectively observable fact.

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I am struggling to understand why it cant be both (struggling, not being obtuse [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

[Taraz]

First of all, I agree with everything Mr J quoted.

Bunny, I am not saying that you can't look at some people and say, "oh he is clearly [insert race here]." After reading some responses in the other thread, some were claiming that "black" people are genetically inferior intellectually than other groups. This assumes that we can separate people into black, white, asian, etc and if we measure the intelligence of each group there will be differences based solely upon which category they are from. If it is in fact genetic, perhaps they would like to explain how we parse out who belongs to which race.