Winning in tough holdem games by stoxtrader

Rackad · #1 08-09-2007, 09:42 AM

Im reading Winning in tough holdem games by stoxtrader and on page 102-124 theres countless of results from defending in the big blind. Theyve lost money with all but the best hands so my question is, should u really defend with anything but the best hands here?

Or maybe even if u loose say 0,3BB with A5s in the ling run u should call because of the money thats in the pot allready. As u can tell I dont think ive quite understood these results and how to interpret them correctly.

uDevil · #2 08-09-2007, 10:17 AM

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Or maybe even if u loose say 0,3BB with A5s in the ling run u should call because of the money thats in the pot allready.

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If you lose less than 0.5 BB/100 hands by playing a hand, it's better than folding.

bogey1 · #3 08-09-2007, 01:43 PM

Ok, this is going to sound harsh, but if you don't understand playing a hand to reduce your long term losses from the BB, then maybe you shouldn't be playing "Tough Holdem" games...

Rackad · #4 08-09-2007, 04:22 PM

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Ok, this is going to sound harsh, but if you don't understand playing a hand to reduce your long term losses from the BB, then maybe you shouldn't be playing "Tough Holdem" games...

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if u dont understand my post maybe u should not post

HH81 · #5 08-09-2007, 06:22 PM

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Ok, this is going to sound harsh, but if you don't understand playing a hand to reduce your long term losses from the BB, then maybe you shouldn't be playing "Tough Holdem" games...

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It did sound harsh... and pointless. Hope it made you feel superior.

kiddo · #6 08-22-2007, 04:51 AM

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Ok, this is going to sound harsh, but if you don't understand playing a hand to reduce your long term losses from the BB, then maybe you shouldn't be playing "Tough Holdem" games...

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100% agree.

If u play in tough holdem games - lets say $30/60 5max - u will play guys that have used years to understand this game. They have ALL done what Stoxtrader is doing here, looking in PT database to find out which hands will beat the 0.5BB we pay to play from Big Blind. And they have done it a long time ago, probably when they played like $1/2 or $3/6. So if think this is a new way of talking about blinddefending, u still have a lot of study to do. U can of course still be ok at holdem but u are not close to the guys in the tough holdem games.

Not many starting hands will win more then 0.5BB (the money u are forced to put in sitting in Big Blind) so most hands will be losers from BB when u look in Pokertrackers database, but in a stealsituation about 50% of your hands will, when u look at them in PT database, lose less then 0.5BB if u call with them preflop, thats why u gotta call with a ton of weak hands when u are in BB.

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Also, dont try to use Stoxtraders book 2 much if u play against non-thinking players. Its not what he is focused on teaching us to play against.

stinkpaw · #7 08-09-2007, 05:02 PM

Not to HJ this thread but do you guys like this book? I got it and was not impressed at all. Thoughts?

bogey1 · #8 08-09-2007, 05:12 PM

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Not to HJ this thread but do you guys like this book? I got it and was not impressed at all. Thoughts?

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Depends on what you play. I found it's pretty good for 10/20. For 5/10 it depends on the table. There's little formulaic about tough games as many of the lines are read-dependent.

stinkpaw · #9 08-09-2007, 05:38 PM

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Not to HJ this thread but do you guys like this book? I got it and was not impressed at all. Thoughts?

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Depends on what you play. I found it's pretty good for 10/20. For 5/10 it depends on the table. There's little formulaic about tough games as many of the lines are read-dependent.

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Maybe I'll give it another shot but I was pretty turned off by the "Here is a 40 page dump of hand stats from Poker Tracker. These hands made money, so these are the hand you should play" approach to many of the topics.

stoxtrader · #10 08-09-2007, 06:33 PM

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Not to HJ this thread but do you guys like this book? I got it and was not impressed at all. Thoughts?

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Depends on what you play. I found it's pretty good for 10/20. For 5/10 it depends on the table. There's little formulaic about tough games as many of the lines are read-dependent.

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Maybe I'll give it another shot but I was pretty turned off by the "Here is a 40 page dump of hand stats from Poker Tracker. These hands made money, so these are the hand you should play" approach to many of the topics.

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IT was more of an - "this is how we determined our starting ranges approach, and you can do yours the same way if you want. If you choose to do so, we have provided our data for comparison".

we could have left the data out entirely and still retailed the book for the same price. the purpose was not to pad the page count but to make the book more complete.