What is sin (or evil)?

[Taraz]

I was listening to a religious debate earlier today and the Christian who was arguing made the popular claim that "humans are sinful by their nature". I know that many people say this all the time, but I'm not even sure I know what that means. Is there any way to describe what this means without going back to original sin? What does that mean for people's actions today? We normally make immoral decisions or what?

I personally think that it is fairly rare for people to choose options which they believe are 'evil' in the moment. From all the psychology I've studied, the one thing I know for sure is that the situation is always of the utmost importance. People do weird things when they are placed in unfavorable scenarios.

I will say that I believe that humans will act selfishly unless they are given a reason not to. So maybe it's considered evil to be selfish?

What makes an action 'evil' or 'sinful' in your mind?

[Silent A]

I've long believed that "sinful by nature" talk has no meaning outside the "original sin" context. I think the two are essentially synonymous.

If you drop original sin I don't think your left with anything more than people don't always do what the Bible tells them they should do.

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]
I've long believed that "sinful by nature" talk has no meaning outside the "original sin" context. I think the two are essentially synonymous.

If you drop original sin I don't think your left with anything more than people don't always do what the Bible tells them they should do.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I mean is how does this original sin impact our decisions today? I just don't want a 'history' lesson about the fall of man. I want to know what tangible effects this has on us right now. What does it mean to act in a sinful/evil way?

[Silent A]

I don't think it means anything more than to sin = to violate the moral instructions of the bible.

As for "sinful by nature" talk, to divorce it from the fall of man is to strip it of all meaning. So if you're not interested in the fall, you're just left with a particular definition of what is moral and what is not.

[Taraz]

Maybe I'm looking for what people consider to be immoral. What makes and action immoral specifically? Can anyone give a definition that would cover all or most immoral actions?

[Subfallen]

"There are no moral phenomena at all, but only a moral interpretation of phenomena---" (Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil)

Note that a Christian morality, to comply with the doctrine of basic depravity, requires man's nature to be evil.

[Taraz]

[ QUOTE ]
"There are no moral phenomena at all, but only a moral interpretation of phenomena---" (Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil)

Note that a Christian morality, to comply with the doctrine of basic depravity, requires man's nature to be evil.

[/ QUOTE ]

I need to read more Nietzsche. That quote really jives with me.

[SNOWBALL]

If by evil or sinful you mean "things I wish people would not ever do" then I'd have to say violence and any form of physical coercion in general.

The reason I prefaced my post as I did is that I agree with subfallen/nietzsche.

[r3vbr]

Religion will never follow logic.

If God exists, is all powerfull, and let's there be evil, then he is evil.

One of the 4 following statements MUST be true acording to logic:

1.God is not all powerfull
2.God is evil
3.Evil does not exist
4.God does not exist

Pick 1 of these if you are christian, you MUST. Do you see why?

[r3vbr]

Good/evil does not exist, they are a human fabrication to natural phenomena.

You dont say a lion is evil when it kills its prey
you dont say a amoeba is good by spliting its cell and passing on nutrients (like a human taking care of a child) or so on...

Ethics is just a code we follow to live harmoniously. There is no moral basis, it's just rules to establish some kind of game-theoric order in wich all participants prefer to chaos.