is it better to fold pre-flop in an easy game w/ jacks?

awakuni · #1 07-25-2007, 09:40 PM

i was at the $40 nl game at commerce and the game was really easy as people were playing pretty badly (going broke with one pair, calling draws oop and without the right price, etc). so early in the session, after three limpers the co goes all-in for $19, i have jacks on the button. i have about $100. is this a situation that i have to call, or could i lay it down and wait b/c the players are so bad. do 2+2ers advocate giving up some pre-flop equity when the players are so weak and that there will be plenty of opportunities to make money later in the session by taking advantage of their horrible plays?

Gonso · #2 07-25-2007, 11:04 PM

$40 NL?

Lady Ashley · #3 07-26-2007, 05:36 PM

Were you the very next one to act? How big were the limpers / blinds stacks? Maybe going all in the hopes of forcing limpers out and isolating the $19 guy would be the way to go - but then I am still learning [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

deucethree · #4 07-25-2007, 11:41 PM

prolly nl200. 1/2 game, $40 minimum buy-in.

Gonso · #5 07-25-2007, 11:50 PM

Well, you could reraise all-in to isolate, but here it would probably be best to let them go.

I certainly don't like a call here. In some cases it would be okay, but not with a few limpers yet to act behind you.

I don't know how much FE you'll have against several limpers if you shove, and no idea what they're range here is, esp if they're bad. You might be ahead, but if they really are that bad there will be better spots.

awakuni · #6 07-26-2007, 12:09 AM

so in this case, with really bad players, it might've been better to fold and get my money in a better spot? i also thought about the hand range of the co but in the previous hand he bluffed off 3/4 of his stack his ace-high and i felt like he was tilting.

on another note, the $40 nl is exactly that a 1/2 $40 max buy where players are super-nitty. the game is easily beatable, simply playing ABC/TAG poker.

drzen · #7 07-26-2007, 01:09 AM

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so in this case, with really bad players, it might've been better to fold and get my money in a better spot?

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Wouldn't you rather be in that spot with your money, his money and the limpers' money when they all fold to your push?

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i also thought about the hand range of the co but in the previous hand he bluffed off 3/4 of his stack his ace-high and i felt like he was tilting.

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And this inclines you to fold?

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on another note, the $40 nl is exactly that a 1/2 $40 max buy where players are super-nitty. the game is easily beatable, simply playing ABC/TAG poker.

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Dude, why are you even asking the question? You have a pusher you think is on tilt, players you consider to be "super-nitty" and a great hand. If you don't push here, they need to drag you outside and shoot you.

awakuni · #8 07-26-2007, 01:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
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so in this case, with really bad players, it might've been better to fold and get my money in a better spot?

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Wouldn't you rather be in that spot with your money, his money and the limpers' money when they all fold to your push?

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unfortunately, part of the players bad play is that they'll call off huge portions of their stacks with nitty hands, so there is no guarantee that they would fold to an all-in. and part of the reason why i started this thread was to figure out if i should play a big pot pre-flop with the lower end of the group one hands, or pass and make money playing medium and big pots with really bad players who constantly make mistakes both pre-flop and post-flop.

deucethree · #9 07-26-2007, 12:18 AM

what were the other players' stacks? if effective stack was $40 that's prolly a pretty bad fold.

pzhon · #10 07-26-2007, 12:25 AM

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do 2+2ers advocate giving up some pre-flop equity when the players are so weak and that there will be plenty of opportunities to make money later in the session by taking advantage of their horrible plays?

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In general, that there will be opportunities to get your money in as a favorite later does not justify making a horrible fold now.

If you have $100 and can bet as much as you want (up to $100) as a 3:2 favorite now, and as much as you want as a 4:1 favorite next hand, how much should you bet to maximize your expected result? Bet it all and let it ride to quadruple up 48% of the time.

If there is one particular villain whose play is particularly bad and you expect to be able to get all-in against him as a significant favorite, you may value chips up to that player's stack more than chips beyond it, which is reason to be risk averse. If you can bet up to $150 next hand as a 4:1 favorite, bet $50 now. If you can bet up to $80 next hand, bet $20 now.

When you play against a table full of bad players with different stack sizes, the value of your chips is close to linear, and there is little reason to be risk-averse.