[5/10] Three hands from my comeback session

GMMigge · #1 07-24-2007, 06:50 PM

Except for collecting the remaining FPP's to get the 40" LCD TV, I've basically taken a timeout lately. Have been pwned so badly.

Been reading Stox' book and got new motivation, so I made little bit of a comeback today two-tabling 5/10 for a while. Here are three hands, probably nothing special about them. It's the same villain in all of the hands - no special reads on him, but he seemed taggy and decent, and in retrospect, somewhat tricky at times.

Hand 1:

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Perhaps I should have folded the river here?

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Hand 2:

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (6 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

River value bet g00t?

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Hand 3:

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

This hand kind of sucked - but he could very well be semibluffing on the turn with a lot of draws in this blind vs blind battle, and the river completed many of those draws, hence my turn call and river fold. Thoughts?

V4P · #2 07-24-2007, 07:30 PM

Results from hand 1 would impact my decisions on the other hands, but against a standardish tag, I'd call down in the first hand, check river on the 2nd, and not raise PF in the 3rd. K3o plays like [censored] postflop, especially against a thinking/tricky player

GMMigge · #3 07-24-2007, 07:41 PM

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...and not raise PF in the 3rd. K3o plays like [censored] postflop, especially against a thinking/tricky player

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By saying this, you saved yourself some headache by avoiding the postflop decision in the hand [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Not saying that I disagree with what you said, but given that I did play preflop as I did, what about the turn decision?

FWIW, the reason I did raise preflop is simply because I like doing it sometimes, that's all. Sometimes I raise all hands when it's completed in front of me. Mostly depends on previous hands in the same session, table image, etc. I cannot say if this was a good time to do it or not, I don't remember the table dynamics at the time. In this specific hand, postflop is more interesting anyways.

GMMigge · #4 07-24-2007, 07:46 PM

Regarding hand nr 2, sure, my value bet on the river is thin at best. But there were both a 4 and a 6 on the flop (both cards lower than my 7s), a flop that he did call, and I don't think it's that unlikely that he'd play such a pair (or low PP's) passively OOP by check-calling down after me 3-betting preflop. Since my image probably is quite aggressive, he might even call me down with A-high as well.

jstill · #5 07-24-2007, 08:16 PM

1 id calldown, people raising the flop is air or semi bluffs a ton, dont know if he fires the river enoguh to call profitably but once i get there I call cuz maybe enough villains would fire again if they raised this flop with air (maybe the turn slows them down a ton tho i duno?) but when u dont cr the turn ur hand doesnt look like big pairs it looks like A hi (since he didnt cap pre u probably dont put him on quads or a PP >TT) so he mite try to fold thos ehands out on the river i duno.

hand 2 I probably wouldnt vb but it could be close most people will still cr a K in this spot on one street or the other so I think only if he played Jx dd this way and decided to ck call the river will u get burnt, hes probably not cr'ing hardly ever either (J8dd maybe?)

hand 3 seems fine, if u bet the turn on this board I dont think we can bet fold. I wonder if we should call the river if its a rag spade or T no flush. probably yes to both definitely the latter? I hate these spots fwiw.

GMMigge · #6 07-25-2007, 03:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1 id calldown, people raising the flop is air or semi bluffs a ton, dont know if he fires the river enoguh to call profitably but once i get there I call cuz maybe enough villains would fire again if they raised this flop with air (maybe the turn slows them down a ton tho i duno?) but when u dont cr the turn ur hand doesnt look like big pairs it looks like A hi (since he didnt cap pre u probably dont put him on quads or a PP >TT) so he mite try to fold thos ehands out on the river i duno.

hand 2 I probably wouldnt vb but it could be close most people will still cr a K in this spot on one street or the other so I think only if he played Jx dd this way and decided to ck call the river will u get burnt, hes probably not cr'ing hardly ever either (J8dd maybe?)

hand 3 seems fine, if u bet the turn on this board I dont think we can bet fold. I wonder if we should call the river if its a rag spade or T no flush. probably yes to both definitely the latter? I hate these spots fwiw.

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Nh. These thoughts sums up my own pretty much.

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if we should call the river if its a rag spade or T no flush. probably yes to both definitely the latter?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would rather say "probably yes to both definitely the former". But seriously I don't know - as you said, those spots sucks. I guess it's my own fault ending up in the situation in the first place by betting the turn, but I don't like checking behind on the turn either.

Oink · #7 07-25-2007, 04:02 AM

I call down hand 1 but since villain really should expect hero to call down A high maybe the river should be a c/f.

I dont vb hand 2. Turn and river dont look good and villain prolly peels the hands that was helped by those. If I knew that villain wouldnt peel loose on the flop I would vb thinking he had 6x or 4x a lot.

I dont know why you would raise preflop in hand 3? The call down is marginal since the pot is smallish. I dont like checking on that board either. I dunnio, its a crappy spot and if you hadnt raised preflop there would be one less bet in the pot making a bet/fold easier.

sharpie · #8 07-25-2007, 05:45 AM

1) I'd play the same.
2) I'm not sure about the turn, but as played I'd value bet the river.
3) Don't raise PF. I would be calling shenanigans on his turn c/r too, I'd expect him not to wait with a flopped pair on this board, although if he's tricky it's possible. Shiddy river card. You still beat hearts and 65, I would call once I got there.

GMMigge · #9 07-25-2007, 06:51 AM

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2) I'm not sure about the turn, but as played I'd value bet the river.

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You'd rather check behind the turn and call most rivers? Hmm I don't know, I think he calls the flop pretty light after me restealing in the BB and getting 7-1 on the flop. Also there are a lot of scary cards on the river where we would have to call a bet anyway after checking behind on the turn. The river jack is actually one of the "few" cards that couldn't have helped him (unless he holds Jx of diamonds).

Admittedly though, I allow him to checkraise when betting the turn which this guy could very well do and that would probably be a fold for us but it wouldn't feel super-good.

sharpie · #10 07-25-2007, 07:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) I'm not sure about the turn, but as played I'd value bet the river.

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You'd rather check behind the turn and call most rivers? Hmm I don't know, I think he calls the flop pretty light after me restealing in the BB and getting 7-1 on the flop. Also there are a lot of scary cards on the river where we would have to call a bet anyway after checking behind on the turn. The river jack is actually one of the "few" cards that couldn't have helped him (unless he holds Jx of diamonds).

Admittedly though, I allow him to checkraise when betting the turn which this guy could very well do and that would probably be a fold for us but it wouldn't feel super-good.

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I'm not sure what's best on the turn, but we can't fold if raised with our 6 outs, and once we make it to the river I'm gonna feel obliged to throw a bet in getting like 9 to 1.

Without much of a read it's tough to figure out if they're the type to wait with Kx or if they'll just check/raise the flop. I'd expect him to check/raise any pair or draw on the flop really, but I sort of expect him to wait more with Kx. He's also peeling the flop with ace high and worse pocket pairs and possibly undercards, but does he have these and calldown both streets often enough to risk having to put in 3 bets when behind? If you're gonna check the river I think I like checking behind the turn. If you can valuebet both streets and expect to get called reasonably often by stuff like ace high, I like betting the turn.

With the limited read I'd play it like you did.