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#1
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live 3/6, AKo SB
9-handed, Hero is dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the SB and raises 6 limpers, including a posted blind in the CO. 8 players go to the flop.
Flop [15 SB]: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] With around 4.5 outs for my two overs, BD flush and straight draws, I'm usually going to want to see a turn here. What line would you take here? 1. check/call one bet, check/fold two+ bets 2. check/call one bet, check/call two bets getting ?:1 or better 3. check/call EP-MP bet, check/raise LP bet 4. bet/call 5. bet/call EP-MP bet, bet/3-bet LP raise if lots of callers in between may fold 6. other? |
#2
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
In the absence of any reads, I'd definitely c/c one bet and c/c two if implied odds demanded it.
Leading this flop into the whole world is silly. You're getting called by any OESD, FD, Q, pair + any kind of draw, or maybe even 88 or 99. If you had limped PF, I'd say check the flop dark. If you hit, it's pretty safe to assume someone will bet into you and you can c/c if you really hit and it disguises your hand strength or c/r if you hit something like TPTK on a draw-heavy board. As played, I'd check the flop and definitely call one bet. If it's bet and raised to two and there are enough callers to give you around 6:1 or better, call it. This would be especially true if you aren't stuck between two raisers or if you close the action. |
#3
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
[ QUOTE ]
If you had limped PF. [/ QUOTE ] i puked upon reading this phrase. |
#4
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
[ QUOTE ]
If you had limped PF, I'd say check the flop dark. If you hit, it's pretty safe to assume someone will bet into you and you can c/c if you really hit [/ QUOTE ] Don't, don't, no it's not, and no you shouldn't, respectively. [ QUOTE ] As played, I'd check the flop and definitely call one bet. If it's bet and raised to two and there are enough callers to give you around 6:1 or better, call it. This would be especially true if you aren't stuck between two raisers or if you close the action. [/ QUOTE ] These things can't be true if you're faced with 2 bets cold. |
#5
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you had limped PF. [/ QUOTE ] i puked upon reading this phrase. [/ QUOTE ] Ahhh! Should have been more clear. I wasn't referring to the fact I actually think the OP should have limped with A-K in this spot. This is a raise approximately always. I was going OT to say that when I limp in games such as this from the SB, I usually check the flop dark if the whole world is in the pot with me. I would <u>never</u> advocate limping with A-K here. Sorry, should have clarified. |
#6
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
[ QUOTE ]
I was going OT to say that when I limp in games such as this from the SB, I usually check the flop dark if the whole world is in the pot with me. [/ QUOTE ] This should be interesting. Why? -McGee |
#7
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
Betting this flop is terrible.
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#8
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
[ QUOTE ]
With around 4.5 outs for my two overs, BD flush and straight draws [/ QUOTE ] Point of clarification requested... I'm certain that the standard from SSHE on BDFD and BDSD are approx. 1.5 outs each, that makes 3 outs. I thought overcards were normally worth approx. 1.5 EACH, wouldn't that make your hand a 6 out hand instead of 4.5? That said, discount your Ace outs a bit more than you would anything else. Lots of limpers preflop at a normal table means there is a real possibility of being reverse dominated by someone holding Ax . |
#9
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] With around 4.5 outs for my two overs, BD flush and straight draws [/ QUOTE ] Point of clarification requested... I'm certain that the standard from SSHE on BDFD and BDSD are approx. 1.5 outs each, that makes 3 outs. I thought overcards were normally worth approx. 1.5 EACH, wouldn't that make your hand a 6 out hand instead of 4.5? [/ QUOTE ] I believe 3 card BDSD's are worth 1.5 outs, but that refers to something like holding T9 with an 832 board. In that case, you'll make a straight if the turn and river come 76, J7, or QJ. This straight draw is effectively like a two-gapper because it only comes in if the turn and river are exactly JT. I discounted my overcard outs a little extra to come up with a guess of 4.5 outs. Thanks everyone for the comments. Would you consider CR'ing a late position bet, say, from one of the last two players to possibly clean up outs? |
#10
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Re: live 3/6, AKo SB
You have two chances, flop and turn, but then your odds aren't 6:2. Sorry if my example wasn't a great one, that's why I noted I was ignoring implied odds. If we're talking about going to the river the flush draw has to figure there are 3BB in the pot now, it's 1BB to call now and at least 1 more to call the turn, so it'll be more like 4:2 or 5:2. Still not a great call with rake.
If ignoring implied odds bugs you take the same example and imagine you flat call the flop and raise the turn. Or it is checked through the flop. Either way, my point is that raising to protect against a flush draw does happen. |
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