NL10 Pocket 8s against a LAG reraise

[CaptVimes]

Villain is 33/18/2 after about 40 hands. I felt like I was getting F'ed with here a bit but what's a nit to do? We have no history before this hand. Play back or let this go and wait.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($5.25)
UTG+1 ($3.55)
MP1 ($3.90)
Hero ($13.05)
MP3 ($6.05)
CO ($0.45)
Button ($5.10)
SB ($16.15)
BB ($7.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.35</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $1.35</font>, Hero?

[Teddie]

fold and save your money. Your either crushed or a coin flip, and too find out its gonna cost you his stack anyway.

[AragornX151]

Plus his stack isn't that deep, and you'll be faced with a lot of annoying decisions on one-overcard flops. I agree with Teddie.

[LearningCurve]

Unless he's already 3-bet a time or two, I'm going to go ahead and fold here. First though I'll think really seriously about how much I want to call. How I really want to bust him because I'm sure he's a LAG and he's got to be playing me for a fool. Next I'll think about all of the times I've shoved here for just that reason. Finally though, I'll remember how I felt to muck my little pp the last time I made this move against a LAG. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Ideally this little mental journey will be enough for me to feel good about hitting the fold button, and I'll be content to wait for a better hand to try to get his stack. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[threads13]

Is this guy a terrible player or is he a good LAG?

There is a case for not raising in the first place although I'm sure everyone will bite their collective cyber-thumbs at it.

[CaptVimes]

Well, he was Aggro preflop, but never showed anything down and calmed down postflop. So I though he might not be a bad lag.

[CaptVimes]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless he's already 3-bet a time or two, I'm going to go ahead and fold here. First though I'll think really seriously about how much I want to call. How I really want to bust him because I'm sure he's a LAG and he's got to be playing me for a fool. Next I'll think about all of the times I've shoved here for just that reason. Finally though, I'll remember how I felt to muck my little pp the last time I made this move against a LAG. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

Odd, I never go through this process, hah, I would probably folded aces if I did. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Even though I had seen him do this a cpuple of times previously, he hadn't shown anything down in order to see how light he was 3-betting so I calmed my inner FOS detector and folded. I guess this leads me to my real question about posting this hand. How much history and what types of players do you play back at in this situation either statswise or with reads. Also, if pocket 8's aren't a good enough hand what kind of hands are? TT+? AK? Do you ever look at villains WTSD% or overall aggro when deciding what to do here?

[LearningCurve]

[ QUOTE ]
Odd, I never go through this process, hah, I would probably folded aces if I did. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Even though I had seen him do this a cpuple of times previously, he hadn't shown anything down in order to see how light he was 3-betting so I calmed my inner FOS detector and folded. I guess this leads me to my real question about posting this hand. How much history and what types of players do you play back at in this situation either statswise or with reads. Also, if pocket 8's aren't a good enough hand what kind of hands are? TT+? AK? Do you ever look at villains WTSD% or overall aggro when deciding what to do here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...he'd possibly been really lucky with cards in the mere 40 hands you'd seen him play, but if he'd already 3-bet more than a time or two my FOS radar would be quivering a whole lot more. Not sure exactly where my line would be but I am really apt to shove with the range you listed and might even do so with a lesser pp. Sometimes you'll actually be up against a top pp, but if he seems to be 3-betting lightly (which multiple times in 40 hands would seem to indicate) I think we could expect to see lower pp's, sc's, and even stuff like AJ. Unless he was really looking to gambool, I think he's going to fold anyhow, and you'd hopefully be left with the benefit of him giving your pfr's a larger berth in the future.

My thought process is obviously light on stats and higher on feel, which might not be particularly helpful. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] However, if we don't push back at some point then I'd rather be looking for another table than hanging around and being run over.

Also, I read Thread's suggestion, and I definitely think it has merit. The only problem I see is that he's likely raising a whole bunch of stuff that you are ahead of, but will have to fold to his inevitable c-bet most of the time.

Can I just say that good LAG's suck to play against? lol

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Odd, I never go through this process, hah, I would probably folded aces if I did. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Even though I had seen him do this a cpuple of times previously, he hadn't shown anything down in order to see how light he was 3-betting so I calmed my inner FOS detector and folded. I guess this leads me to my real question about posting this hand. How much history and what types of players do you play back at in this situation either statswise or with reads. Also, if pocket 8's aren't a good enough hand what kind of hands are? TT+? AK? Do you ever look at villains WTSD% or overall aggro when deciding what to do here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...he'd possibly been really lucky with cards in the mere 40 hands you'd seen him play, but if he'd already 3-bet more than a time or two my FOS radar would be quivering a whole lot more. Not sure exactly where my line would be but I am really apt to shove with the range you listed and might even do so with a lesser pp. Sometimes you'll actually be up against a top pp, but if he seems to be 3-betting lightly (which multiple times in 40 hands would seem to indicate) I think we could expect to see lower pp's, sc's, and even stuff like AJ. Unless he was really looking to gambool, I think he's going to fold anyhow, and you'd hopefully be left with the benefit of him giving your pfr's a larger berth in the future.

My thought process is obviously light on stats and higher on feel, which might not be particularly helpful. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] However, if we don't push back at some point then I'd rather be looking for another table than hanging around and being run over.

Also, I read Thread's suggestion, and I definitely think it has merit. The only problem I see is that he's likely raising a whole bunch of stuff that you are ahead of, but will have to fold to his inevitable c-bet most of the time.

Can I just say that good LAG's suck to play against? lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, the c-bet is coming but we aren't folding to it all the time. That is why it depends whether or not he is good. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I could buy that the reason this is a raise is because OOP doesn't suck as much nearly at these levels and you will be able to just push someone out on the flop so much that it is very profitable.

[LearningCurve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Odd, I never go through this process, hah, I would probably folded aces if I did. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Even though I had seen him do this a cpuple of times previously, he hadn't shown anything down in order to see how light he was 3-betting so I calmed my inner FOS detector and folded. I guess this leads me to my real question about posting this hand. How much history and what types of players do you play back at in this situation either statswise or with reads. Also, if pocket 8's aren't a good enough hand what kind of hands are? TT+? AK? Do you ever look at villains WTSD% or overall aggro when deciding what to do here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...he'd possibly been really lucky with cards in the mere 40 hands you'd seen him play, but if he'd already 3-bet more than a time or two my FOS radar would be quivering a whole lot more. Not sure exactly where my line would be but I am really apt to shove with the range you listed and might even do so with a lesser pp. Sometimes you'll actually be up against a top pp, but if he seems to be 3-betting lightly (which multiple times in 40 hands would seem to indicate) I think we could expect to see lower pp's, sc's, and even stuff like AJ. Unless he was really looking to gambool, I think he's going to fold anyhow, and you'd hopefully be left with the benefit of him giving your pfr's a larger berth in the future.

My thought process is obviously light on stats and higher on feel, which might not be particularly helpful. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] However, if we don't push back at some point then I'd rather be looking for another table than hanging around and being run over.

Also, I read Thread's suggestion, and I definitely think it has merit. The only problem I see is that he's likely raising a whole bunch of stuff that you are ahead of, but will have to fold to his inevitable c-bet most of the time.

Can I just say that good LAG's suck to play against? lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, the c-bet is coming but we aren't folding to it all the time. That is why it depends whether or not he is good. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I could buy that the reason this is a raise is because OOP doesn't suck as much nearly at these levels and you will be able to just push someone out on the flop so much that it is very profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you raising pretty much any flop? My call-downs figuring I probably have the best hand against some 70/50 LAG are always a bust. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Teach me how to play post flop against a good LAG please.