Pete's shot at NL100 - calling river raises?

[Peter Harris]

2 tables of FTP last night, I was raised on the river by 2 different villains. What do people think of these?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

Hero (SB): $99.00
Villain (BB): $101.50
UTG: $167.35
MP: $136.30
CO: $151.15
Calling Station (BTN): $135.70

Reads: <font color="blue">Villain raised 76s PF utg, bet all 3 streets on a TTTxx board and was looked up by Calling Station with 88.


This was a shot taken at NL100, river action?</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
3 folds, Calling Station calls $1.00, Hero calls $0.50, Villain checks

Flop: ($3) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $3.00</font>, Villain calls $3.00, Calling Station folds

Turn: ($9) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $6.00</font>, Villain calls $6.00

River: ($21) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $10.00</font>, <font color="red">Villain raises to $30.00</font>, Hero...?



Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $100.50
Hero (BB): $113.65
UTG: $58.85
MP: $303.45
CO: $104.95
BTN: $121.65

Reads: <font color="blue">Villain has a huge stack, and has not played too many hands up till now.

River action?</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, MP calls $1.00, 2 folds, SB calls $0.50, Hero checks

Flop: ($3) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3.00</font>, MP calls $3.00, SB folds

Turn: ($9) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $6.00</font>, MP calls $6.00

River: ($21) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $10.00</font>, <font color="red">MP raises to $30.00</font>, Hero...?

[ShipitFMA]

I probably call the first one seeing as he's capable at bluffing, but generally call it anyway

Hand two i think we should be check/calling the river rather than bet/fold or bet/call. As played its a dirty spot, but i probably fold

[Peter Harris]

I recorded this for a session review and I say after hand 2 that c/c is a better line. I think it's c/c &gt;&gt; b/f &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; b/c


edit: hand 1, since villain bets trash, why aren't I c/r the flop?? Is that pretty awful?

[monkover]

[ QUOTE ]
I recorded this for a session review and I say after hand 2 that c/c is a better line. I think it's c/c &gt;&gt; b/f &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; b/c


edit: hand 1, since villain bets trash, why aren't I c/r the flop?? Is that pretty awful?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don´t like the idea of c/r the flop at all! imo you make sure that villain fold most worse hands and he can check a diamond draw beind.

[Peter Harris]

given the read in hand 1 that villain bet down with nothing on a trips flop, is he likely not to bet a diamond draw? I think c/r flop is a pretty good line in retrospect, since betting out pot is only meh as a line.

I agree in both hands that as played I should be b/f. I definitely agree in hand 2 it should; hand 1 is slightly less clear cut.

being raised on the river (and then calling) is definitely a leak of mine, and one I am at least aware of. Hopefully I can plug it soon!

[munkey]

hand 1: I bet 7 on the turn -charge draws more and get more in on the river. I also bet river more like 60% pot [value and block bluff raise] and just call the river raise - tempted to shove but it's paired and I can't put villan's range down enough and given paired board I'll have to opt for the calling route.

hand 2: Hmm villan likely knows you've got a jack so I'm c/folding the river vs this villan - he's limeped so either got Jx Sc or small PP or t8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] . I may call if I've seen donkish tendencies.

What monkover says is true and cost me alot $$$ lst month - in general until shown otherwise big bets aren't bluffs -[if non-induced].

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]

hand 1: I bet 7 on the turn -charge draws more and get more in on the river. I also bet river more like 60% pot [value and block bluff raise] and just call the river raise - tempted to shove but it's paired and I can't put villan's range down enough and given paired board I'll have to opt for the calling route.

[/ QUOTE ]

On this board I'm pretty sure you're calling to chop at best unless this villain is reckless enough to raise with A8 or something here.

[dimeetrees]

These spots are REALLY TOUGH. The only reason I would ever think villain would raise here on a bluff is if he interprets your river bet as weakness.

First hand. Im trying to think of what you can beat other than a bluff, and I dont see much... The flush got there, and so did the boat. Honestly Im putting villian on a flush here, it looks like a way ahead, way behind situation. If I were in your shoes, since Im taking a shot, if I didnt have a solid read on my opponent, I would fold here. I just dont see you beating anything other than a bluff here, he played it EXACTLY like a flush.

Hand 2 is a super tough spot as well. Im not sure why villain limped or what he limps with, but it doesn't look like you beat much on the river either. 8-10, and k10 got there on the turn. Other than a bluff you can tie any jack that didnt make him a boat, but you are beat by j-10+ and pocket 9's. Other than q-10and a flush draw, i dont see you beating much here, especially since villain didnt play too many hands, smooth calling twice on this type of board means you are either drawing, or you are REALLY confident with your hand. Id need a good read on my opponent to call here, otherwise Im going to have to go with the conservative route and fold on the river readless.

In general, the way these guys played it is the way I play monsters, to me it looks like they are representing big hands, and the river raises look like they are for value, both of these spots are VERY marginal, and heavily depend on having a good line on the villains' play.

[monkover]

Hey pete! I´ve been there as well taking shots at 100NL but it seems like you think that now that you play 100NL players will start making way more moves at you and bluff raise the river.
this def is not the case.

hand 1: I like b/f this river although I´m betting more on the river. about 16$ b/c 10$ just looks really weak but as I have already said you won´t get bluff raised too often in this spot.

hand 2: Here again the same problem you are betting really small, less than half the pot. I´m betting 7$ on the turn and c/c the river B/c villain calling range on the river&lt;&lt;villain´s betting range.

[monkover]

oh and as played i´m folding both of them