live 67s Button

[Frond]

Live 4/8 game that that has been going from LP to tight.

UTG(loose pf reasonable post)limps, MP(bad post flop)limps, MP1(good 2+2er)limps, HJ(weak older guy)limps, CO(predictable guy with the "I place a chip on my cards when I like them" tell does just this and limps, Hero is BTN with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and limps, SB completes, BB(tight lady) raps.

(7 SBs) Flop of 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] SB checks, BB Checks, UTG Checks, MP Checks, MP1 Checks, HJ Checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, MP1 folds, HJ folds.

(6 BBs) Turn is the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Checked to CO who bets, Hero raises, all fold to CO who thinks for a moment then folds and says "nice hand". Hero takes down pot.

A few things: 67s is near the bottom of my PF range here. With my gut draw I may not have been getting the 10.5:1 odds to draw but it was close(adding ? for the BDFS) and I felt that a few others were coming along for the ride so I called. On the turn I make the current nuts but with the 2 flush out I thought it better to raise it here for protection.

Anyone fold this flop? Easy peel right?

[KitCloudkicker]

first with all these limpers on the button i think you have an easy pf raise, both for value and based on your position.

as played, i consider flat calling the turn bet. given that no one showed great strength on the flop, your turn raise has little value as all the flop 'checkers" arent calling, and a weak tight CO wont call either. the risk is that you are letting in straight draws for cheap for a chop, but in this situation i believe going for overcalls has a higher EV.

all, it is likely that if you raised this PF, you probably would have tied others into this pot and gotten more action on your straight.

oh...and your flop call is fine in a passive game where you dont have to fear a CR.

EDIT: i missed the flush draw. the turn raise now makes more sense.

[Frond]

Doing a flop smoothie had occured to me. I guess the 2 flush out there made me just pop it right there instead.

BTW, how many outs do we give this BDFD?

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
Doing a flop smoothie had occured to me. I guess the 2 flush out there made me just pop it right there instead.

BTW, how many outs do we give this BDFD?

[/ QUOTE ]

whoops, sorry, missed the FD....thats pretty important. now i like turn raise a lot more. if the flop was rainbow i'd def go for overcalls.

the BDFD is worth 1.5 outs.

[OregonRogue]

Pop this one time from the button PF.

Raising the turn maybe right but I think I could be convinced to call and see what happens. With three players in the hand behind us we have a shot at a prety good sized pot here. Guess it depends on if youre good enough to recognize a made flush on the river and are ok folding your straight.

[Frond]

Also,I felt that the CO liked his hand by his chip on card tell and thought he would be calling my raise here. I think he did have a hand but he was a bit weak and got a bit scared of my play. Oh well

Tell-This is the 2nd time that I and a fellow 2+2er have noticed this on the last 3 sessions by a player. This is a LLHE tell that if some of you haven't picked up on you should. It is pretty easy to spot and pretty reliable. One session back some old guy would do this. One hand he chipped his cards right after looking at them (he only did this when he liked his hand)and raised PF, he got 3 bet by some guy who didn't notice this older guy, and they went to the flop. The 3 bettor bet into him and the old guy raised. Why this guy kept on with the hand against the Ole' chipper I'll never know. The old chipperguy flopped a set.

Now obv some players always chip their cards on every hand but keep your eyes open for some who only do it on PF hands they raise or like.

Frond's Live SSHE tip o' the day

[mrcunningham]

Kit,
I'm interested in your suggestion to raise PF with low-middling suited connectors. I can see doing it on occasion for metagame reasons (convincing the fish that you're a maniac), but it would not seem intuitively to be EV+ even on the button with 5 limpers. The OP does not comment on particularly passivity of the table. Do you have some quantitative argument for raising it up here? I certainly would raise JTs or even T9s in this situation, but often enough these will win with top pair, but 76s will rarely win with top pair so you will need to flush or straight to play this. More thoughts on this?

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Kit,
I'm interested in your suggestion to raise PF with low-middling suited connectors. I can see doing it on occasion for metagame reasons (convincing the fish that you're a maniac), but it would not seem intuitively to be EV+ even on the button with 5 limpers. The OP does not comment on particularly passivity of the table. Do you have some quantitative argument for raising it up here? I certainly would raise JTs or even T9s in this situation, but often enough these will win with top pair, but 76s will rarely win with top pair so you will need to flush or straight to play this. More thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Suited connectors are equity hogs in big, multi-way pots. Even down as low as 76s you're almost certainly going to have a preflop equity advantage against a full field of limpers, so raising is for value. It also helps that we hold the Button (position) and that presumably we can outplay the field after the flop. Plus of course the preflop raise disguises our hand should we end up with the straight or trips.

[Frond]

I guess I have to draw the line somewhere. Lately, with a hand like this in a multi way pot like this I have been raising PF with 78s and up. It doesn't have to be set in stone though like lots of poker decisions. The argument can be made "well if you are going to to raise 78s then why not 67s?" Well then what about 56s, 45s etc etc. 78s is just where I have my line currently.

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
The argument can be made "well if you are going to to raise 78s then why not 67s?" Well then what about 56s, 45s etc etc. 78s is just where I have my line currently.

[/ QUOTE ]

With five limpers to you already, 54s isn't much different than 87s.

-McGee