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#1
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At least its still limit tournaments [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
i always hate this position. Should I bet 5th street, or is check/fold the move? Seat 3 & 7 play very loose and agressive, seat 6 tends to be showdown bound. Tournament - HORSE - 7 Card Stud High-Low - Level V (80/160), Ante 16, Bring-In 24 (converter) Hero: 1,980 Seat 2: 1,373 Seat 3: 1,110 Seat 4: 816 Seat 5: 2,282 Seat 6: 3,790 Seat 7: 2,348 Seat 8: 4,051 3rd Street - (1.60 SB) Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls Seat 2: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls 4th Street - (3.40 SB) Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls Seat 8: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___folds 5th Street - (5.70 BB) Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___folds Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls |
#2
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5th is fine. You should have folded 3rd facing 4 or 5 low cards with one of them an ace.
Patty |
#3
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[ QUOTE ]
You should have folded 3rd facing 4 or 5 low cards with one of them an ace. Patty [/ QUOTE ] This is a tournament with lots of the opponents are limping in with odd holdings. I am essentially closing the action, the A before me doesn't matter at that point because the pot is so large - provided I play well post flop. |
#4
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![]() [/ QUOTE ] This is a tournament with lots of the opponents are limping in with odd holdings. I am essentially closing the action, the A before me doesn't matter at that point because the pot is so large - provided I play well post flop. [/ QUOTE ] For me, "lots of opponents limping in with odd holdings" describes a low limit cash game more than a tourney (unless very low limit too) but your mileage here may vary. I realize you are likely closing the action on 3rd but this is a trouble hand especially with one of your 2 pair cards dead. I don't understand what you mean that the Ace doesn't matter - I am being serious when I ask that you explain that to me. Yes they probably would have raised if it was split aces but if the ace is a pair with an ace kicker or a 3 low with the ace you wish they weren't in there in case you don't improve much or they hang on and do improve for high while also drawing to the low half. The pot is 1.36 small bets before your call - hardly large, though offering decent odds. I guess you are getting about 5 or 6 to one to hit a king which would be great but transparent, or maybe one of two 6's which would be a likely river ticket to try for half the pot but might just lose you a large pot with all that opposition. Zee talks about judging how many are likely coming when deciding about whether to play hands like this. In this case it is laid out before you. It is only a bring-in to try and hit a monster but it is often not that simple. On 4th, yes you want it heads-up. However, I don't think betting and expecting the bring-in to raise behind you when they happen to hit a baby is playing well after the flop. And just how did you get to that messy spot? Patty Oops, I was using the 3rd street small bet tally on the hand converter. Antes equal 128, 5 total bring-ins @24 before your action. You are getting 10 or 11 to one not 5 or 6 to one to limp. Doesn't change much for me since the problem decisions are later. |
#5
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This is why I wouldn't even get to 5th with this hand and the whole table limping in front of you. Fold 3rd.
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#6
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I think the limp on third is fine, but you should check fourth. Good fold on fifth.
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#7
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[ QUOTE ]
I think the limp on third is fine, but you should check fourth. Good fold on fifth. [/ QUOTE ] I bet 4th thinking the next player to act will likely raise, my goal was to get the hand heads up. Does that change your mind in any way? |
#8
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Well, your plan worked part-way. 42 did raise, which isn't entirely surprising. Two guys called behind you, which also isn't surprising. I don't know what the buy-in was for this prestigious event, but I'm guessing that it was on the low side, given all of this limping and calling of raises. With this kind of opposition, I think that you're a lot better off checking and hoping for a free card. In order for your bet to have the desired effect
1) 42 has to raise. A lot of these guys would just as soon see the river as cheaply as possible, even with moderately strong holdings. In this case in particular, 42 was the bring-in. He could have anything underneath. 2) Everyone else has to fold. Just because these guys checked doesn't mean that they're not prepared to take all raises. For checking to have the desired effect, all that has to happen is that 42 has to check with a strongish board. Considering that he was the bring-in, this isn't too great of a stretch. When I limp in with a dog like this, it is in the hopes that either I get hit hard on fourth, or I get a free card on fourth. I'm definitely checking. |
#9
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I think you can call third for trips value or whatever, but when *four* of your outs are gone on fourth, just check/fold.
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#10
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check/fold on fourth, pretty simple decision unless you catch a king or maybe a 6
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