Flopping the Joint

Jeffage · #1 07-09-2007, 12:43 AM

30-60 Bellagio. I have 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB, 3 people limp, SB limps and I check.

Flop comes 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, unknown UTG (30-something) raises, folded to a player in LP who 3-bets. Folded back to me and I 4-bet, UTG calls cold and LP calls. I know LP, and he plays decently in a generally straightforward manner and respects my game.

Turn card comes the J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Your action and plan for the rest of the hand?

Thanks,
Jeff

Maliant · #2 07-09-2007, 12:56 AM

bet turn call down raise.

Joe Tall · #3 07-09-2007, 01:09 AM

That's not the joint. That's a jalopy.

GreywolfNYC · #4 07-09-2007, 08:58 AM

I'd check the turn and reevaluate when the action is back on me. I've been in this exact spot before and it's obviously very hard to get away from this hand. But if it's 2 more big bets back to you on the turn I think you're pretty much cooked. A lot depends on what you think the guy in LP thinks you have.

goofball · #5 07-09-2007, 09:43 AM

Put him on JTs and open muck?

That is a pretty sick turn card but I think you have to bet. put pressure on UTG and make sure no one gets any free cards. Deal with a raise when it comes, depending on how and from where.

GreywolfNYC · #6 07-09-2007, 10:48 AM

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Put him on JTs and open muck?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I didn't say that. I said I would reevaluate when it came back to me. The last sentence of my post is what I'd be thinking about during the turn action.

Jeffage · #7 07-10-2007, 10:21 PM

Yeah, I think this is the play. At the table, I just instinctively felt that card was horrible and gave someone a boat with J10 (or someone flopped a set). I didn't think both we're drawing. I also thought that, it would be tough for someone to resist betting a jack if they had one so a bet was likely to go in anyway.

But - I like your plan better.

Jeff

mongidig · #8 07-10-2007, 02:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check the turn and reevaluate when the action is back on me. I've been in this exact spot before and it's obviously very hard to get away from this hand. But if it's 2 more big bets back to you on the turn I think you're pretty much cooked. A lot depends on what you think the guy in LP thinks you have.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the reasons that checking the turn is bad, because it can put you in a very difficult situation like calling two bets cold(I am usually calling here since you will run into trips here more often than a boat). However, if you bet and it comes back three bets now you can think about letting it go.I am not saying I would always fold, but I would think about it.

Maliant · #9 07-10-2007, 03:08 AM

I think I could bet fold / 3 with confidence.

GreywolfNYC · #10 07-10-2007, 09:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd check the turn and reevaluate when the action is back on me. I've been in this exact spot before and it's obviously very hard to get away from this hand. But if it's 2 more big bets back to you on the turn I think you're pretty much cooked. A lot depends on what you think the guy in LP thinks you have.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the reasons that checking the turn is bad, because it can put you in a very difficult situation like calling two bets cold(I am usually calling here since you will run into trips here more often than a boat). However, if you bet and it comes back three bets now you can think about letting it go.I am not saying I would always fold, but I would think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay. That's a good point and I can see the reasoning in betting rather than checking. However, since I've been unanimously criticized for saying check the turn (perhaps rightly so), also consider this. If you lead the turn, you may not be closing the action when it comes back to you (depending upon UTG's actions) and you may get trapped into a capped turn and drawing dead.