Raising Big Pairs in a limped pot

[raistlinx]

I know this is kind of a general question and dependant on the table so assume a full table of micro-limit unknowns. It's been a while since I played limit.

I have JJ-TT in LP and have 2-3 limpers in front of me and know I will end up with a 5-6 handed pot, still I raise. When an overcard does come I tend to just check/fold assuming that at least 1 out of the 4-5 players hit and I'm drawing to two outs.

Is this standard or should I be willing to call down or even protect my hand form a second overcard if only one overcard comes? Am I really only building this pot for when I hit my set/overpair? Is there any argument for limping when you know the pot will be 4-5 players?

Also I assume two over cards or something like QTx when I have JJ is a check/fold?

Second part, same situation but AKos/AQos (specifically offsuit cards). If I raise do I check fold if I don't pair (or hit second pair with AQos) against unknowns? Should I just limp with AQos?

I would play these flops aggressively in a HU pot but I'm trying to get a grip on when to let it go in large ulti-way pots.

[BigBadBabar]

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I have JJ-TT in LP and have 2-3 limpers in front of me and know I will end up with a 5-6 handed pot, still I raise.

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yes.

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When an overcard does come I tend to just check/fold assuming that at least 1 out of the 4-5 players hit and I'm drawing to two outs.

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no.

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Is this standard or should I be willing to call down or even protect my hand form a second overcard if only one overcard comes?

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you should continue to bet.


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Is there any argument for limping when you know the pot will be 4-5 players?

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not with a hand this good. maybe with 77 or 88.

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Also I assume two over cards or something like QTx when I have JJ is a check/fold?

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no, it's a bet.



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Second part, same situation but AKos/AQos (specifically offsuit cards). If I raise do I check fold if I don't pair (or hit second pair with AQos) against unknowns? Should I just limp with AQos?

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no, bet.

limit = bet more!

[BigBadBabar]

limit you have to push small edges and raise and bet for value more. it's not like nl where you have kk and can check fold against nits when an ace flops.

if you have qq in limit, raise pf, two calls, flop k32, you are still ahead some enormous percentage of the time. bet, get paid, buy dinner.

[jack21221]

My personal cut-off for raising in this particular situation is JJ. I raise with JJ, limp with TT or lower.

[kerowo]

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My personal cut-off for raising in this particular situation is JJ. I raise with JJ, limp with TT or lower.

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This is bad. Too tight.

[Xhad]

When deciding whether to continue on overcard flops you also need to look at the exact board and position and consider reads if you have any. Some sample boards and how I'd play them:

4 limpers, SB folds, I raise from the BB with JJ. Flop is AT4 and I check probably expecting to fold.

3 limpers, I raise from the SB with red JJ, everyone calls. Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I check, it's checked to laggy button who bets, I raise.

3 limpers, I raise JJ otb. Flop is K53 rainbow. Checked to me and I bet.

3 limpers, I raise JJ otb. Flop is K53 rainbow. Checked to last limper who bets, I raise.

[raistlinx]

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limit you have to push small edges and raise and bet for value more. it's not like nl where you have kk and can check fold against nits when an ace flops.

if you have qq in limit, raise pf, two calls, flop k32, you are still ahead some enormous percentage of the time. bet, get paid, buy dinner.

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I was talking more about pots that are 4-6 handed after the flop. 2 or 3-way I'm definately betting. How do you handle overcards when it's like 4-6 handed?

[RcrdBoy]

I think BBB has covered most of this exactly right. If you are getting called you are ahead a lot on these types of boards. If you are getting raised by a player that is loose but straight forward, often times you are beat.

The one area I disagree is c-betting the big Aces.

If the pot is really 5 or 6 handed, depending on position, you should check a lot of these flops. Again, these are general answers and the texture of the flop is important.

Also, pot size and outs are really important. If you've got a couple of back door draws and 2 overs you can call getting 10-1 or better. Here are some links that should provide some help. They could be stickied already.

GL!

[Christian_Peters]

In my opinion, these are some of the toughest spots in limited hold'em. There is no heuristic.