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  #1  
Old 06-30-2007, 03:55 AM
Panic__NL Panic__NL is offline
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Location: Netherlands, Rotterdam
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Default NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

Hand 1

Villian is 62/18/0 over a small sample


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $44.10
UTG+1: $32.70
CO: $50.50
Button: $30.20
SB: $49.95
Hero: $70.60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $1</font>, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($9, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $6</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $12</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $66.6</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button calls all-in $14.2</font>.
Uncalled bets: $40.4 returned to Hero.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($61.4, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $61.4)


River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($61.4, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $61.4)


Results:
Final pot: $61.4


Hand 2

Villian is 70/1.4/2 over 70 hands

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $54.30
UTG+1: $17.65
CO: $100.65
Hero: $99.55
SB: $28.15
BB: $23.25

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($4, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $27</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB calls all-in $22.4</font>.
Uncalled bets: $0.6 returned to Hero.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($56.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $56.8)


River: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($56.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $56.8)


Results:
Final pot: $56.8


Hand 3

Villian is 58/15/4.6 over 80 hands

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $50.10
CO: $57.45
Button: $22.70
SB: $27.20
BB: $50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($5.75, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $5.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $23</font>, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($51.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB is all-in $2.45</font>, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($56.65, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $56.65)


Results:
Final pot: $56.65
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2007, 04:51 AM
Manchild84 Manchild84 is offline
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Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

Hand 1: Not sure I like... villain hasn't been aggressive, and you don't have much in the way of fold equity. I don't think your JJ alone is good here, so we're playing for the straight, I guess.

Hand 2: Standard

Hand 3: That big of a raise is only getting called by hands that you're behind or flipping with.. I'd make a reasonable raise ($13ish), and probably shut down to resistance.
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  #3  
Old 06-30-2007, 05:43 AM
matrix matrix is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 7,050
Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

#1: is marginal. The fact that a SUPERpassive villain minraised our flop bet in a reraised pot is very scary. Tho he almost never has the fd so it's likely that all our 8 outs are good so we're at worst ~35% dog.

After he minraises there's a ton of dead money in the pot and if we pushed and got called we'd be getting ~2:1 so a push is +EV but super thin as we have next to no fold equity. If he folds here even 10% of the time then this makes us some money.

#2: standard.

#3: I think the flop is a fold. If we had A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] then it's obv a push but without seeing as we raised pre and BB has donkbet pot into us ... This is very player dependant as to what to do - vs some I call down(aggro bluffy types) - vs some I push (morans who's call with just a fd) vs some I fold. Raising is only getting called by better as most villains without a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] are scared of an all spade flop.
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  #4  
Old 06-30-2007, 07:31 AM
WC3V WC3V is offline
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Posts: 87
Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

Hand 1: Marginal - Definately wouldn't make this move if he had a full stack. Fold equity is close to 0.

Hand 2: Standard

Hand 3: I probably fold here, especially with button still to act. I definately don't like push. Other alternative would be to call and pop a non spade or non queen turn.
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  #5  
Old 06-30-2007, 08:21 AM
Upgrade_U Upgrade_U is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: .EE
Posts: 327
Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

Hand 1 : Standard, you either have to fold to his min-raise or push it in.

Hand 2 : obv. standard

Hand 3 : Agreed with wc3v
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  #6  
Old 06-30-2007, 09:09 AM
simonpoker simonpoker is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 319
Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

1: I would fold

passive opponent minraising unless he is bluffing you are behind and a lot of times you are way behind.

2: std

3: Fold for reasons mentioned above
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2007, 10:58 AM
Bonesy Bonesy is offline
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Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

For all of you saying fold hand 3, what are you putting villain on here with his stats? I think combo draws and TP hands are a big part of his range. Also, I don't agree that pushing flop only gets called by stronger hands. This villain probably calls with all his draws and TP hands too.
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2007, 01:02 PM
calmB4storm calmB4storm is offline
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Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

*grunch*
Hand 1: I don' t like it. If we were sure to have 8 clean outs then I think this would be ok, but the flush draw plus the straight possibility make me fold this.

Hand 2: Looks fine. Possibly ahead right now, and the nut flush draw is good insurance.

Hand 3: Yeah, I think this is good versus the short stack. If the SB was deeper, I might just call and re-evaluate on the turn.
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  #9  
Old 06-30-2007, 01:05 PM
calmB4storm calmB4storm is offline
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Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

Just looked at the replies.
They're right, don't fold Hand 1.
I didn't think about how passive villain was, meaning likely no flush draw.
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  #10  
Old 06-30-2007, 01:10 PM
eternal_ eternal_ is offline
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Default Re: NL50 Are these flop shoves any good?

You shove hand 1 because you have FE but villain isn't deep enough.
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