AC and "emminent domain"

[NewTeaBag]

Srry if this has been hacked to death already

(I did try to hunt for specific AC discussions of emminent domain via the search feature, but there is a very strong possibility I am a searchtard)

I got to thinking about this the other day seeing 2 specific examples here in Thailand.

EX 1) Nanai Rd in Patong, Phuket is probably the 3rd buisiest avenue. The road is hilly, narrow, and curvy and in many spots pretty crap. In at least 3 sections there is constant digger/maintenance/fixing going on at any given time. Now the way Thai contractos work, they hire loads of super cheap labor which means jobs take forever and ever. (Think if a standard road fix in NYC would take 4 days it will take at least 3 weeks over here). Additionaly, when they do this "fixing" it sprawls across 20-40meter fronts which effectively destroys any buisness during the fix period for the shops/bars/restaurants/guesthouses on that section of road.

This seems a clear example of Thai emminent domain saying "too bad so sad" to those biznesses, "we gots to fix the road."

EX 2) A different rd, smaller than Nanai, but a direct feeding filter road from the busiest avenue in Patong is even narrower but much shorter. Recently, One of the main buildings along this rd was demolished and a new one is being constructed in it's place, except this one is now extending into the road by a good 2 meters effectively turning an already narrow, 2 lane, heavily trafficked rd into a 1.25 lane rd causing serious constriction at busy times, creatinging multiple blindspots, and an all around danger to those travelling through the restriction.

Patong/Phuket are not doing anything about this encroachement because the owner's (of the new bldg) deed for land actually overlaps onto the rd and they won't restrict his use.


My questions:

1) What is the concensus (or at least majority) AC opinion on emminent domain in the general sense?

2) How would an AC society handle EX1?

3) How would an AC society handle EX2?

[BCPVP]

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1) What is the concensus (or at least majority) AC opinion on emminent domain in the general sense?

[/ QUOTE ]
Is it all that hard to guess?

As far as the examples, none of us would know. Considering the roads are effectively monopolized by the government and how bad monopolies are at providing quality service, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to say that the free market would do a better job.

[NewTeaBag]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) What is the concensus (or at least majority) AC opinion on emminent domain in the general sense?

[/ QUOTE ]
Is it all that hard to guess?

As far as the examples, none of us would know. Considering the roads are effectively monopolized by the government and how bad monopolies are at providing quality service, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to say that the free market would do a better job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your response, but could you specificlly address how an AC society could BOTH maintain a safe, efficient systems of roads (OBV required for proper comerce) and protect the property/land owner rights?

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) What is the concensus (or at least majority) AC opinion on emminent domain in the general sense?

[/ QUOTE ]
Is it all that hard to guess?

As far as the examples, none of us would know. Considering the roads are effectively monopolized by the government and how bad monopolies are at providing quality service, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to say that the free market would do a better job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your response, but could you specificlly address how an AC society could BOTH maintain a safe, efficient systems of roads (OBV required for proper comerce) and protect the property/land owner rights?

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't provide a blueprint for how such things would work. That'd be a pretty good argument in favor of central planning if I could, wouldn't it?

[almostbusto]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) What is the concensus (or at least majority) AC opinion on emminent domain in the general sense?

[/ QUOTE ]
Is it all that hard to guess?

As far as the examples, none of us would know. Considering the roads are effectively monopolized by the government and how bad monopolies are at providing quality service, it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to say that the free market would do a better job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your response, but could you specificlly address how an AC society could BOTH maintain a safe, efficient systems of roads (OBV required for proper comerce) and protect the property/land owner rights?

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't provide a blueprint for how such things would work. That'd be a pretty good argument in favor of central planning if I could, wouldn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]


What's the deal with ACist's thinking that they don't have to defend, or even think about their own political theories?

seriously what a worthless post.



ok here is how a free market *might* deal with such problems. we have all heard the phrase "everyone has a price" well that axiom, to the extent that it is true, can be used to allow individuals in the market to reallocate resources (like land that would be better used to extend a road).

surrounding businesses, or whatever entity owns/maintains the roads in the area, could bargain with the building owner to alter their plans to allow the road to be widened.

the building owner only yields so much $ per square foot of his building, and that value per square footage is actually diminished somewhat if the surrounding roads are impassable, so the owner would have a strong motivation to sell to the road owners/surrounding businesses who are willing to pay him to alter his plans.


a lot of issues relating to market externalities can be solved through similar bargaining processes. for example, it has been famously argued that radio station frequencies don't need to be regulated, because if two stations broadcast on the same frequency, then nobody is going to make any money, and so the station that is earning more money from that frequency will be able to 'bribe' the other company to stop using that frequency, and the less profitable company will switch to a less popular frequency.

i can't recall the solution to 'frequency terrorism' where companies maliciously try to mess with other stations to disrupt their business but i think the results were that it isn't cost effective or supported by game theory. i think predatory pricing is similar, there is little evidence it would ever be successful in real world markets since it ends up being costly and its hard to restrict entry of new firms once you drive the old firms out of business

[GoodCallYouWin]

"
What's the deal with ACist's thinking that they don't have to defend, or even think about their own political theories?

seriously what a worthless post."

I think his point is exactly on the money.

[tolbiny]

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What's the deal with ACist's thinking that they don't have to defend, or even think about their own political theories?


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Hes not asking for a specific political theory, the OP is asking for what the actual market solutions will be. I'm not, and since government has monopolized them heavily all over the world its unlikely anyone else here is, an expert on road systems under a free market. Are we supposed to know if 40 guys working for 6$ an hour will do better than 6 guys working at 40$ an hour fixing the road? Or in # 2 what entrepreneur would put down a road across someone else's property without a firm agreement in place to make sure something like this didn't happen? But when we start posting hypothetical fixes all we do is end up engaging in 14 page nitpick arguments that go nowhere.
The core of AC philosophy that we debate (and I am sure BVCVP has thought about extensively from watching him transition to market values here) is that the best way to solve problems is to find good problem solvers. If we could, objectively, figure out what the best solution would be (or at least a very good one) we could rely on central planning, but since in real life major decisions have massive ramifications which are difficult to predict and hidden benefits which only become apparent after implementation we have to rely on competition to find the best (or better) solutions.

[tomdemaine]

[Richard Tanner]

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I can only speak for the statist crowd, and by further division, the Libertarian crowd, but I often find that thinking causes me to shudder and run and hide under my bed. I just found the courage to crawl out after reading a post PVN made 3 days ago.

So please, no though provoking posts like the above, for my sake.

Cody