LC: We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?

[KPL]

Hi guys, just rambling down some thoughts. The SNG players have lost "status" (if they ever had any...) the last 6 months to 1,5 years among the poker society. I really don't care about the guys complaining about how SNGs really isn't about poker at all,"blah, blah, AI preflop, lol donkaments" etc. Most of the guys trashing the game because of its nature isn't the big winners anyway - or maybe they are, I just can't see why winning players need to trash supposedly inferior players.

But anyhow: especially "post Frist", the "good players" have been fleeing from the SNGs. If you look at the front page of STT, most of the posts are from noobs or low stakes players.
Even the mods of this forum don't care so much about SNGs, but stick around because they once enjoyed the games and feel more connected to this forum as this is were they started.

I'm still playing SNGs, because I still think they are kind of fun (!) and still find them kind of soft, but I'm wondering if I'm just to stupid/lazy to move on and pick up another game.

My question is if they are worth playing still. Here are some cons/pros:

Cons:
- There isn't that many good players left who still find the beneficial. Among players who have moved on: Citanul, good2cu, Curtains, FieryJustice, Raptor, etc. (actually, most of the "big" posters when I started lurking in this forum winter '05)

- The high stakes players who still are playing SNGs are either among the greatest players (like bigjoe, Z32fanatic, Gramps etc.), or has it as a second game (like dbbeast, pudge)

(NB: just examples of names in the paragraphs above, but I'm sure you're getting the main point)

-the games are solved/may be more easily learned, so more people are picking up the basic ICM strategy

- the ROI of even good players are dropping post Frist, and the variance may be kind of bad

- there are more multi tablers, even at the lower buy ins

- the $/hr is lower than at cash games (assuming you're a winning player)

-it's kind of stressful, as you're stuck to the game as long as you're in it

Okay, was thinking on putting in some pro SNGs statements as well, but I notice that the tl;dr factor is high enough already. I'll come back with some more thoughts if this post get some love

[checkmate36]

[ QUOTE ]
My question is if they are worth playing still

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what your looking for. If your looking for fun and you said you thought they were fun, then play them.

[donkeykong2]

i have recently returned to sngs for two short sessions with about 20 sngs at limits from 10-30 $ and i have to say the games were not juicy imo. there were occasional donks but the play was ultra nitty even at the 20$ limit and i just didnt see a lot of big mistakes which would make the games worth playing, i m pretty sure i d be a winner for like 10-20% roi but i dont think it s worth it, the swings suck and the gameplay is pretty stupid if you just decide between all-in or fold at 10 tables simultaneously. cash games are more easy money imo. it s just too easy to learn these games and multitable them, so the profits have gone down rapidly.

[mortimo]

I find the $54-sngs in the pokerroom-network softer than the $16`s at stars..I may be result-oriented, but I see so many donks there

I`m sure others will say the same

[JamieO]

When i first started playing online i played ssnl. Then i had a big mtt win and played exclusively mtt's for a long time. I came to stt's from mtt's because I needed to lower my variance drastically. My bankroll had taken a big hit and i needed to build it safely at a decent pace. With my tiny bankroll right now, i think multitabling (8-10) smaller stakes stt's (20's now soon 27's) is making me the most per hour with the least risk.
I think this simply because there are a large number people who are just awful at stt's. I think the main reason is that rocks are just so much easier to take advantage of in stt's then ssnl. It's hard to make a lot off a rock in ssnl, but in stt's they have to open up eventually. They never do enough. My roi isnt that pretty and my per hour is less than id like it, but in my first 400 tourneys at the 20's the worst downswing ive had is 18 buy ins. Thats nothing compared to mtts, and im gonna stick around here until i get a proper roll again. I have thought quite a bit about cash though.

[Foldem78]

Play both.

I recently started playing cash games about 3-months ago..but, I've been playing sng's for about 1.5 years..Sadly, I've already made more money off my cash hands than I did the whole time I was playing sng's..(never had a coach; which was probably stupid)

I play low-stakes sng's mostly (6.5's, 11's)

However, I would say that if you're playing low-stakes sng's and you're just starting out..learn cash instead..If you're beating the 27's or higher for at least 10% ROI..stick with sng's..(Assuming you only care about making the most money in the least amount of time.)

[donkeykong2]

[ QUOTE ]
I find the $54-sngs in the pokerroom-network softer than the $16`s at stars..I may be result-oriented, but I see so many donks there

I`m sure others will say the same

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i saw a very fishy game there with 4 players left with around 4k in chips and 400/800 or 3/6 blinds and no one was pushing all in like they should do, never played on stars though.

problem: these games dont run frequently and pokerroom is terrible to multitable.
also the turbos seem to be a huge crapshoot there with 3 mins blind levels.

[Stake Monster]

I went from cash to SnGs because I had been on a 4-5 months rollercoaster and needed to play a game with less variance. It's nice to know you'll only lose X amount if you get stacked, and psychologically it's what I needed to get back into poker.

I'll likely go back to cash games once I feel I ain't prone to tilting easily.

Also, I think playing SnGs and cash games helps your game a lot more than playing just 1 type. IMO, it's always good to vary what you play, for the sake of interest, and improving further.

[Bingo_Boy]

Seems to me that NL cash games are by far the most challenging and most profitable.

I think most people start in the sngs cos its the safest place to start with a small bankroll. Once you're making a steady profit and increase stakes / start multitabling its difficult to switch to cash games and lose the sng mindset (for me anyway).

I think if your trying to make a serious profit from poker you need to play NL cash, but if you're just a recreational player trying to top up your salary then sngs are less stressfull and much more enjoyable.

(or do I just need to learn how to play small stakes cash - good books anyone?)

[ALReturnsLOL]

" We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?"

Short answer is yes, unless your an SNG icon.