KK first hand of ME qualifier on tilt ($300) TROUBLE

[Dawg24]

title gives most of the info...I am in small blind with KK blinds are 10 and 20. start with 3000 chips.

UTG raises to 60 and MP3 raises to 440...

folds to me in sb with red KK...I just call...thoughts??

UTG folds...to the flop..T910 in pot

Ah Jh 10s... my thoughts are he was protecting a pocket pair with that over bet and this cant be a good flop for him unless he has (Ak, Aj, A10, JJ, or 10 10) and I have doubts of Aj or A10 with that bet. So I lead out with a bet of 477 to see where I stand...he waits about 2 seconds and goes all in...WTF???

so I think about it and cant come up with much I beat...I am guessing 10 10 or JJ or Ak so I fold even though the pot was offering close to 2-1. I think fold was correct but was it? How close is it?

[twonine29]

1st hand...KK...and it's raised/re-raised to you.

Just push pf, there's enough out to make it worth it if they all fold.

[Mingdu]

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Just push pf

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[CTKid]

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Just push pf

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hate this. No one is calling with JJ TT and many will fold QQ. You just make it sooo easy for your opponent to play correctly. With stacks this deep I think you played it fine, although if you plan to fold to a push I prefer a flop check once you smooth call pre. By the way I think he could easily have JT here.

[Sherman]

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Just push pf

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hate this. No one is calling with JJ TT and many will fold QQ. You just make it sooo easy for your opponent to play correctly. With stacks this deep I think you played it fine, although if you plan to fold to a push I prefer a flop check once you smooth call pre. By the way I think he could easily have JT here.

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Seriously? He is 3-betting PF with JT? I thought his 3-betting range would be a lot tighter for the first hand of the tournament. More like JJ+,AQs+. Especially given that the OR was in EP. Anyhow, the way I look at it, he is never folding KK+ and probably rarely folding AK, QQ. And sometimes he makes a donkey call with AQ or JJ. I push PF. Just because it is a $300 buy-in doesn't mean the players are any good. Certainly there are satellites into this thing.

[ThePershore]

How often do people raise to 22x BB level 1 with JT?

I also push pf, as played fold flop 100% (also check / fold flop is prolly better, IMO the only hand he could feasibly have that you beat on the flop is QQ, barring him being literally insane).

[CTKid]

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Just push pf

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hate this. No one is calling with JJ TT and many will fold QQ. You just make it sooo easy for your opponent to play correctly. With stacks this deep I think you played it fine, although if you plan to fold to a push I prefer a flop check once you smooth call pre. By the way I think he could easily have JT here.

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Seriously? He is 3-betting PF with JT? I thought his 3-betting range would be a lot tighter for the first hand of the tournament. More like JJ+,AQs+. Especially given that the OR was in EP. Anyhow, the way I look at it, he is never folding KK+ and probably rarely folding AK, QQ. And sometimes he makes a donkey call with AQ or JJ. I push PF. Just because it is a $300 buy-in doesn't mean the players are any good. Certainly there are satellites into this thing.

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You are 150bb deep. JTs on the button is getting played here a large percentage of the time. This is an auto 3bet for many good players. I'm not saying that's what he has, but 1) its definitely in his range and 2) its a good play.

[binions]

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title gives most of the info...I am in small blind with KK blinds are 10 and 20. start with 3000 chips.

UTG raises to 60 and MP3 raises to 440...

folds to me in sb with red KK...I just call...thoughts??

UTG folds...to the flop..T910 in pot

Ah Jh 10s... my thoughts are he was protecting a pocket pair with that over bet and this cant be a good flop for him unless he has (Ak, Aj, A10, JJ, or 10 10) and I have doubts of Aj or A10 with that bet. So I lead out with a bet of 477 to see where I stand...he waits about 2 seconds and goes all in...WTF???

so I think about it and cant come up with much I beat...I am guessing 10 10 or JJ or Ak so I fold even though the pot was offering close to 2-1. I think fold was correct but was it? How close is it?

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Whenever I see someone bet about 1/7th of their stack early in a tournament, I immediately put them on AA or KK. They are trying to take away implied odds of anyone calling with a smaller pocket pair. This very strategy is advocated in Kill Phil. Maybe this player has a wider range for that bet, but AA-KK need to be at the front of your mind when you see this bet and know nothing more about the player.

With KK, I probably cannot fold. I certainly do not push preflop.

When the flop comes AJT, you are done with the hand unless you improve for cheap. The only hand he could have that you are beating is QQ.

Your flop bet accomplished nothing. You could not get a better hand to fold or a worse hand to call. You had nothing to protect. And, a free card if he checked behind could give you the nuts if you were behind and he was slowplaying.

[chrismystero]

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title gives most of the info...I am in small blind with KK blinds are 10 and 20. start with 3000 chips.

UTG raises to 60 and MP3 raises to 440...

folds to me in sb with red KK...I just call...thoughts??

UTG folds...to the flop..T910 in pot

Ah Jh 10s... my thoughts are he was protecting a pocket pair with that over bet and this cant be a good flop for him unless he has (Ak, Aj, A10, JJ, or 10 10) and I have doubts of Aj or A10 with that bet. So I lead out with a bet of 477 to see where I stand...he waits about 2 seconds and goes all in...WTF???

so I think about it and cant come up with much I beat...I am guessing 10 10 or JJ or Ak so I fold even though the pot was offering close to 2-1. I think fold was correct but was it? How close is it?

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Whenever I see someone bet about 1/7th of their stack early in a tournament, I immediately put them on AA or KK. They are trying to take away implied odds of anyone calling with a smaller pocket pair. This very strategy is advocated in Kill Phil. Maybe this player has a wider range for that bet, but AA-KK need to be at the front of your mind when you see this bet and know nothing more about the player.

With KK, I probably cannot fold. I certainly do not push preflop.

When the flop comes AJT, you are done with the hand unless you improve for cheap. The only hand he could have that you are beating is QQ.

Your flop bet accomplished nothing. You could not get a better hand to fold or a worse hand to call. You had nothing to protect. And, a free card if he checked behind could give you the nuts if you were behind and he was slowplaying.

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so your logic is: "since this tournament is deepstacked, i can afford to call off 1/7th of my stack and fold if i THINK ive been outdrawn." That is horrible reasoning IMO. Personally (and seems to be against what a lot of people are saying in this thread), I'm all for pushing preflop when I'm pretty much always ahead. The only hand that beats us is AA, and I think AA is very rarely played like this anyways. So assuming it is not AA (which I dont think it is) your worst case scenerio of pushing is picking up 24 BB's or wutever it is, which I'll certainly take uncontested.

[binions]

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Whenever I see someone bet about 1/7th of their stack early in a tournament, I immediately put them on AA or KK. They are trying to take away implied odds of anyone calling with a smaller pocket pair. This very strategy is advocated in Kill Phil. Maybe this player has a wider range for that bet, but AA-KK need to be at the front of your mind when you see this bet and know nothing more about the player.

With KK, I probably cannot fold. I certainly do not push preflop.

When the flop comes AJT, you are done with the hand unless you improve for cheap. The only hand he could have that you are beating is QQ.

Your flop bet accomplished nothing. You could not get a better hand to fold or a worse hand to call. You had nothing to protect. And, a free card if he checked behind could give you the nuts if you were behind and he was slowplaying.

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so your logic is: "since this tournament is deepstacked, i can afford to call off 1/7th of my stack and fold if i THINK ive been outdrawn." That is horrible reasoning IMO. Personally (and seems to be against what a lot of people are saying in this thread), I'm all for pushing preflop when I'm pretty much always ahead. The only hand that beats us is AA, and I think AA is very rarely played like this anyways. So assuming it is not AA (which I dont think it is) your worst case scenerio of pushing is picking up 24 BB's or wutever it is, which I'll certainly take uncontested.

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Ever try making it 440 to go with AA in the 10-20 level with 3000 in chips?

I have. Quite a bit. And while I often pick up the blinds, you'd be surprised how often I get KK-JJ, AK and sometimes worse pushing over the top of me because they read me for a medium pair scared of a flop.

You might try it sometime.

But then, I suppose you probably bet AJT flops with KK out of position into big preflop raisers, too.