Suited junk makes TPNK. Turn play.

NIX · #1 06-19-2007, 10:25 AM

Not sure I like how I played this hand.

CO is running at 58/8/0.8/~200. He's prone to donking flop with a lot of pairs and some draws. I don't think he'll bet/fold for 1 bet on a street, but he can fold to reasonable aggression. He also peels a fair number of flops.

Button is 27/16/2.8/~35. He's quite agro. He has been going to showdowns through aggressive play a lot although he has caught a lot of hands (i.e. he's more apt to bet 3 streets than check/call 3 streets). He is also capable of 3 barreling OCs.

SB is 51/5/2.7/~35. When he's been in the SB and it's a HU or 3 way limped pot, he seems to autobet any flop. Not sure if he'd do it 4 way though. Also, he likes to autobet a lot of boards if checked to him IP or if the previous street checks around and he's OOP. He can bet/fold in these cases, but otherwise he shows down often.

Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero ???

I checked the flop planning on check/raising the likely c-bet from the Button, but didn't get the chance. Since I no longer like raising the flop, is a turn donk/fold appropriate?

Bona · #2 06-19-2007, 10:42 AM

I don't usually defend with Q5, even suited, but I know many would so it's probably OK.

I think the flop check raise was a good plan though and I am not quite sure why you didn't do it? Lotta people bet 2nd pair or less on the flop, at least at the .25/.50 level where I usually play 6 max.

Turn as played; We aren't going to convince anyone we made a hand with that brick so we can only bet here if we think we are ahead or if we think villains would give it up. Would they? If we think we are behind we have to check/fold with only 5 outs. I'm thinking check calling down may be OK though.

mdrudeen · #3 06-19-2007, 10:45 AM

I have no idea where we are at.

Check calling the flop has got us lost. Is everyone drawing? Are we outkicked? So I think a flop CR was probably your best option here. I don't like playing TPNK OOP multiway so I will try to thin the field early.

As played I check call the turn for 1 more and re-evaluate the river

kerowo · #4 06-19-2007, 10:50 AM

There is a lot of stuff CO could have that hit this flop enough for him to donk, several straight and flush draws. The turn card is a blank against all of them so since you didn't c/r the flop I don't mind it on the turn, fold if it's two back.

NIX · #5 06-19-2007, 01:01 PM

kerowo, you are in favor of checking with the intent of raising the turn?

kerowo · #6 06-19-2007, 01:06 PM

If I'm thinking this is a possible blind steal situation I'm going to c/r this flop and lead a blank turn.

As played and with a guy who likes to donk draws I like c/r this blank turn. It might just get rid of straight draws and get an extra bet from flush draws that don't hit. It also lets us dump it if it comes back to us two bets.

tyler_cracker · #7 06-19-2007, 03:15 PM

i fold preflop. i'm fine defending with this hand, but i'm not fine with playing it in a 4(!)-way pot.

i am elated that no one has suggested donking the flop. the kool-aid is working!

i like the flop check and i like the flop call. trapping the field with TPNK makes no sense to me. i like re-evaluating the turn instead.

this turn card is perfect. i donk it.

NIX · #8 06-19-2007, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As played and with a guy who likes to donk draws I like c/r this blank turn. It might just get rid of straight draws and get an extra bet from flush draws that don't hit. It also lets us dump it if it comes back to us two bets.

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem I have with this is that I'm not sure that CO will bet again in the case he has a draw. He easily could, but I'd want to tighten his range up to some more made hands if he does bet again, and in that case, I'm slightly less excited about the thought of making this pot huge, since I'm slightly more behind his range on the turn than on the flop. Secondly, no one is going to fold a straight draw for another bet. If they called 1 bet getting 7:1 or better, they aren't going to fold getting 11:1 or better.

If I'm going to check/raise anything, it's because I think I'm ahead, not because I'm trying to protect my hand.

Checking and being able to fold if Button or SB wakes up though does have some merits.

NIX · #9 06-19-2007, 10:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Check calling the flop has got us lost.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agree. Although I'm pretty confident I'm ahead of the PFRer. I'm pretty sure he's raising anything that beats me on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
So I think a flop CR was probably your best option here. I don't like playing TPNK OOP multiway so I will try to thin the field early.

[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree. The guy on my left donked and everyone called. No one is folding if I check/raise the flop.

MrWookie · #10 06-19-2007, 11:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea where we are at.

Check calling the flop has got us lost. Is everyone drawing? Are we outkicked? So I think a flop CR was probably your best option here. I don't like playing TPNK OOP multiway so I will try to thin the field early.

As played I check call the turn for 1 more and re-evaluate the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, the classic newbie mistake of thinking we have to know where we stand in the hand. You need to learn to kick back and enjoy the uncertainty when it's profitable to do so, or at least when it's not profitable to raise.