Michael Moore's new film: Sicko

Eihli · #1 06-17-2007, 05:03 AM

Michael Moore has a new film coming out in a couple weeks that talks about National Health Care systems. The film is already all over the internet - http://openflv.com/watch?v=NDE5OTQ4Nw==&p=0 it's down atm - and for those of you that have seen it, I figure this forum would have the best discussion for or against what Moore presents in this film.

I haven't formed an opinion yet. I want to hear more from each side before deciding which system is best. One of the many things I don't like about the film though is it seems more like an advertisement trying to get people to move to other countries, rather than a documentary explaining the economic benefits and consequences of each system.
For example, he's constantly using the word "free".

Moore: So, how much did you have to pay for the surgery?
Patient: It was free.

Moore: So, you got your fingers re-attached completely free of charge?
Patient: Yeah, anyone would.

He also said that the birth mortality rate was lower in
El Salvador than in the U.S., which a quick look at gapminder shows is false. http://tools.google.com/gapminder/#$majo....2$inds=USA_tHy,,,,;SLV_tHy,,,,

There are many other things in the film that make me want to hear from someone more intelligent than Moore explain the benefits of a national system.

Zygote · #2 06-17-2007, 05:11 AM

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There are many other things in the film that make me want to hear from someone more intelligent than Moore explain the benefits of a national system.

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A national system defends special interests and makes welfare style health care feel less like receiving charity for the poor.

Eihli · #3 06-17-2007, 05:16 AM

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There are many other things in the film that make me want to hear from someone more intelligent than Moore explain the benefits of a national system.

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A national system defends special interests and makes welfare style health care feel less like receiving charity for the poor.

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What special interests does it defend and how does it defend them?

And I don't understand what you mean when you say it "makes welfare style health care feel less like receiving charity for the poor".

Are you saying the poor who receive charity feel bad that they are receiving it? And are you blaming that bad feeling on a privatized health system?

Zygote · #4 06-17-2007, 01:28 PM

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What special interests does it defend and how does it defend them?

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Government sphere defends the interest of those who vote for it versus those who wont/wouldnt, by coercively enforcing the policy on those on the con side.

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And I don't understand what you mean when you say it "makes welfare style health care feel less like receiving charity for the poor".

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Instead of giving poor people the equivalent of a food stamp, health care vouchers, politicians invented universality (which really should be called nationality because all universal systems are happy to deny access to Africans, for example) to avoid "demoralizing" the poor.

Gamblor · #5 06-17-2007, 07:01 AM

As someone who has grown up in two different fully National Health Care systems I am proud to say the thought of anyone paying a single cent for health care makes me sick.

I dont care if its inefficient or my taxes are higher. Someone is legitimately sick, they should be fixed. That's the most basic reason as to why government exists in the first place: to pool people's resources for the continued health and wealth of the people who inhabit the state. By definition, that would require ensuring every citizen of the state receives health care, period. Cosmetic surgery, some perscriptions, obviously don't apply.

Mechanisms for determining whether a particular procedure would benefit the state and its citizens (on an individual basis) still to this day need fine-tuning, but still, the point remains.

ShakeZula06 · #6 06-17-2007, 07:11 AM

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As someone who has grown up in two different fully National Health Care systems I am proud to say the thought of anyone paying a single cent for health care makes me sick.

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Too bad a system like that doesn't exist by a long shot.
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That's the most basic reason as to why government exists in the first place: to pool people's resources for the continued health and wealth of the people who inhabit the state.

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Why do you think this? Are rich power hungry people running government or do philantropists (sorry, 6am, not going to be able to spell that right) run government?

Nielsio · #7 06-17-2007, 07:23 AM

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Someone is legitimately sick, they should be fixed.

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So let's say I know someone who is sick. Can I steal your money in order to help them?

Taso · #8 06-17-2007, 07:34 AM

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Someone is legitimately sick, they should be fixed.

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So let's say I know someone who is sick. Can I steal your money in order to help them?

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So I was talking about my dad, who is a doctor who has practiced medicine in Greece, England, Canada and here in the US for around 40 years, basically what he said was this,

"When I was in England, they said people were dying in the streets because they can't get treatments. When I came here to the states, they say the doctors in England are terrible and it takes forever to be treated. Neither is true."

His point was, it's all [censored]. People aren't dying in the streets here. If you can't afford treatment, and you don't have insurance, you go to a city hospital and you are treated for free, if you are "legitemately" sick. There, when you are "legitemately" sick you are treated right away, but if you have a procedure that can wait, you will wait.

Either way, if you are legitemately sick you are getting treated right away.

QuadsOverQuads · #9 06-18-2007, 02:27 AM

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So let's say I know someone who is sick. Can I steal your money in order to help them?

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Let's say I want all the benefits of American citizenship, but none of the responsibilities. If I spam an internet message board 24 hours a day, does that make my cause just?

q/q

ShakeZula06 · #10 06-19-2007, 10:24 PM

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So let's say I know someone who is sick. Can I steal your money in order to help them?

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Let's say I want all the benefits of American citizenship, but none of the responsibilities. If I spam an internet message board 24 hours a day, does that make my cause just?

q/q

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So...do you actually have an argument or is attacking credibility pretty much your only move?

Oh, and by the way, Nielso's not a US citizen.