Pretty Simple preflop question, can i call with 88?

markbris · #1 06-14-2007, 03:42 AM

4.40 buyin
No reads on anyone really that would help here, nobodys done anything real stupid.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG+1 (t2630)
MP1 (t3937)
MP2 (t2615)
CO (t6618)
Button (t5540)
SB (t2670)
BB (t990)
Hero (t3795)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls t100, UTG+1 calls t100, MP1 raises to t200, MP2 calls t200, 1 fold, Button raises to t600, 2 folds, Hero ?

ItalianFX · #2 06-14-2007, 03:45 AM

Button is saying he has something. Nobody has been out of line so fold on the basis that you're probably behind the hand ranges.

Doofus · #3 06-14-2007, 04:06 AM

If others aren't capable of reraising here then I would call as the pot is becoming big and your implied odds look good.

Mench · #4 06-14-2007, 04:08 AM

Nope, def fold. you have to flop a set and don't have odds to.

Doofus · #5 06-14-2007, 04:14 AM

With 1350 in the pot already and a large amount of action quite likely postflop it is close depending on the limpreraising tendencies of the others.

Trents · #6 06-14-2007, 06:10 AM

Deffo fold here. MP1 is still to act and will at least call or might even reraise again. Before you know it half your chips are at stake pre flop. If you do hang about you're unlikely to hit a set and probably behind to any flopped overcard. Always the danger of a higher PP out there too.

With 88 in early position with no reads I'll either raise(40%) or fold(60%)

FishyMcFish · #7 06-14-2007, 07:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, def fold. you have to flop a set and don't have odds to.

[/ QUOTE ]

This combined with the fact you're not closing the action so could get in trouble with a mediocre hand. Calling in the first place was reasonable but you're unnecessarily commiting yourself into a pot you've only committed $100 chips to. Let it go.

APipeDream · #8 06-14-2007, 08:38 AM

I would mostly fold this because you are OOP. Otherwise, I may call, but only with reads. Without any reads, I would probably say you're looking at 2 overcards or a better pair, so I would wait for a beter spot. You know this will be difficult to play postflop if you don't hit your set, and the button will be VERY likely to put in a c-bet.

binions · #9 06-14-2007, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
4.40 buyin
No reads on anyone really that would help here, nobodys done anything real stupid.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG+1 (t2630)
MP1 (t3937)
MP2 (t2615)
CO (t6618)
Button (t5540)
SB (t2670)
BB (t990)
Hero (t3795)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls t100, UTG+1 calls t100, MP1 raises to t200, MP2 calls t200, 1 fold, Button raises to t600, 2 folds, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

1350:500 or 2.7:1 pot odds on the call, with 4545:500 or 9:1 impied odds if you hit your set and double up.

But you have as much as 2350:500 or 4.7:1 on the call if your call induces the others to call, with huge implied odds.

The question is whether anyone behind will raise. MP1 is the logical choice to put the 3rd raise in.

Do you know anything about MP1? Will he risk his tournament reraising against the table chip leader just to get heads up with dead money in the pot? Some players will. Others will respect the big stack reraise on the button and just call.

How about UTG+1? Is he tricky such that he will limp a big pair and play second hand low, hoping an aggressive player behind him will raise? He's the second of your concerns.

I don't think MP2 will push all in if it is called to him. He has seen 2 limpers and a minraise. If he had a hand worthy of a big raise, he would aleady have made it.

So, it comes down to whether UTG+1 is playing second hand low, which he probably isn't, and whether MP1 who minraised is willing to put the 3rd raise in against the big stack, which he probably won't.

On balance, without reads, I wait a few counts and then make the call. If raised behind me, I fold and preserve my 3200 stack.

MJBuddy · #10 06-14-2007, 11:57 AM

People saying implied odds aren't there are *nuts*.

It's there; if you know the people behind you aren't going to rejam, call. IF you're unsure, you should probably consider folding. This will be a big pot with or without you, and sitting out of it is beneficial, but passing up an absolutely great odds situation is insane.