Big draw on turn rr pot $200NL

[Novles]

Still kinda new to HU. PF, flop ok? What about turn? We're early in the match. He's 3 bet me once and I folded. The only real hand we've played so far was when he opened the button, I called and c/r'ed a T96 two-heart board, led a blank turn, and shoved a K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] river and he folded.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
2 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

<font color="black">Hero (SB): $281.50</font>
<font color="black">BB: $219.50</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $6.00</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $18.00</font>, Hero calls $12.00

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($36) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $28.00</font>, SB calls $28.00

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($92) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $80.00</font>, Hero?

[MasterLJ]

Calling 3bets with KJ will get you in trouble in most cases. You should only be calling here preflop once your opponent has shown that he has a wide 3-bet range.

As for post-flop, the Ace and the fact that it's a spade is a huge scare card that your opponent can use. You will need a read here as to what your best course of action is. Will villain fold AK/AQ here? Will villain fold A9 here? How often is he bluffing? I feel that smaller pp might take this line.

Villain has represented a hand like AJ+ here with 3-betting, checking flop and calling. That being said, you will have to be sure villain will release his hand if you push based on earlier reads. If you don't have a read here, fold... you are not deep enough to be drawing here and you only have 9 clean outs.

[MychCumstien]

The villains line feels a lot like an AK-AJ type hand. The preflop call is dependent on villains range, as LJ said. I probably do call here though being on the button, KJ HU is strong. If I was the BB, I'd be more inclined to fold rather than play this HU OOP.

I check behind on the flop. As the villain 3 bet you preflop, he could easily C/R you in this spot. You completely whiffed, and the board is fairly connected as well. I check here, as your hand can still develop. Why risk getting raised off your hand? You have 2 overs and a gutshot draw. If villain plays back at you here, you have to let it go.

Had you checked behind on the flop, you'd be facing a much smaller bet on turn, and it would give you a cheaper opportunity to draw at the nut flush. As played, I fold the turn here. Your KJ outs are gone, you have 9 outs to the King high flush, your str8 outs may not be good either. I don't think you are getting the odds to continue here on the turn.

to sum it up, call preflop, check behind flop, call small bet on turn. As played, fold turn.

[Novles]

Why don't you guys think our straight outs are good? There aren't a whole lot of suited hands that typical villain repops with, given I have K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is out. And most other spade SC's that he may repop with flopped a monster combo draw on the flop so he'd def lead with them, or at the very least c/r ai.

[GotQuads]

LOL. How can the NUT OUTS not be good.

We have almost certainly a 15-outer here, so I can't see how folding the turn can be the correct play. Maybe 14 outs if he has a set.

[MychCumstien]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL. How can the NUT OUTS not be good.

We have almost certainly a 15-outer here, so I can't see how folding the turn can be the correct play. Maybe 14 outs if he has a set.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? I don't see how you can possibly count all of your Q/9 outs to the straight with 3 spades already on the board? Your 9 spade outs are definitely good. But your outs to the straight may be good, or may just give you the "second best" hand a lot of the time, and cost you your entire stack. NH sir.

I don't think you can count all of your str8 outs here, as they don't give you the nuts, only the spades do.

Based on pot size, you need all 15 outs to call here, pot is giving 2.15-1. You don't have all 15 outs here, I say FOLD.

[MasterLJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you guys think our straight outs are good? There aren't a whole lot of suited hands that typical villain repops with, given I have K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is out. And most other spade SC's that he may repop with flopped a monster combo draw on the flop so he'd def lead with them, or at the very least c/r ai.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is, he has to have air, or an underpair a lot to making pushing the turn profitable. He has $100 behind and has basically shown he is committed to the hand.

I think his range is 66+ and AJ+. I'm leaning towards AJ+ since it appears he floated the flop. I defer to your reads as to whether or not he can fold there.

[whaahhahahah]

i like checking behind this flop. most of the time, the next card will help you more than it will help him (imo a blank helps you more than it helps him because you can rep a pair better than he can).

on most turns, you'll be able to take it away with a bet or a raise.

now with the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], you're getting 2:1 for a draw that's close to 2:1. you don't need to get that last 100 that often for this to be profitable. seems like a call turn/fold river unimproved.

[Novles]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you guys think our straight outs are good? There aren't a whole lot of suited hands that typical villain repops with, given I have K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is out. And most other spade SC's that he may repop with flopped a monster combo draw on the flop so he'd def lead with them, or at the very least c/r ai.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is, he has to have air, or an underpair a lot to making pushing the turn profitable. He has $100 behind and has basically shown he is committed to the hand.

I think his range is 66+ and AJ+. I'm leaning towards AJ+ since it appears he floated the flop. I defer to your reads as to whether or not he can fold there.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's committed to his hand, he's pushing the rest in on the river always, right? We're getting immediate odds on a turn call against this range and I even included some flushes which I think he rarely has. I was thinking it was either push or call and am surprised by the fold comments.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

3,872 games 0.010 secs 387,200 games/sec

Board: Ts 7s 8d As
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.167% 31.82% 00.35% 1232 13.50 { KsJd }
Hand 1: 67.833% 67.48% 00.35% 2613 13.50 { AA, TT-66, ATs+, A8s-A7s, QsJs, Qs9s, Qs8s, Js9s, Js8s, 6s5s, 5s4s, ATo+, A8o-A7o }


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[creedofhubris]

When someone makes a weird and fishy play like reraising preflop and then checking the flop, I like to check it right back to them unless I've got a real monster or some reason to believe they really are giving up.