Late game strategy, w/examples

RichC. · #1 05-31-2007, 01:39 AM

Ok, this post is something that I have been trying to come up with that can show some common situations in late game play and trying to find the best play. Some of these are very easy, push or fold, some are raise or fold, and others, well, TBD i guess.

What I am looking for is how you would play the situation in front of you. In most of these cases, you are a short or medium stack. So, if you raise, how much? Whats your plan if you raise and get shoved on? If you say fold, give a reason, same for if you push.

For all hands, you have a tight solid image.

Hand 1, $109 6max
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t800/t1600
(Ante: t200)
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t72088
UTG+1: t27000
CO: t90690
Button: t55383
SB: t88670
Hero: t30127

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t3800, CO calls t3800 (pot was t7400), Button folds, SB calls t3000 (pot was t11200), Hero???

Hand 2, same as #1
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t1000/t2000
(Ante: t250)
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t134671
CO: t18250
Button: t85340
SB: t91770
Hero: t33927

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
3 folds, SB raises to t4000, Hero????

Hand 3, $24 14k
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t1500/t3000
(Ante: t400)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t49520
UTG+1: t113406
MP1: t82057
Hero: t37284
MP3: t64757
CO: t138873
Button: t105355
SB: t102375
BB: t80534

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
3 folds, Hero????

Hand 4, same tourney

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t1500/t3000
(Ante: t400)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t113006
UTG+1: t81657
Hero: t36884
MP2: t55357
MP3: t138473
CO: t122055
Button: t100475
SB: t77134
BB: t49120

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero????

Hand 5, $24, 19k

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t300/t600
(Ante: t75)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t12826
UTG+1: t7825
MP1: t17517
Hero: t6318
MP3: t4433
CO: t3105
Button: t15713
SB: t3176
BB: t8527

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
3 folds, Hero????

Hand 6, $24, 19k
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t300/t600
(Ante: t75)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t6093
UTG+1: t5783
MP1: t4455
MP2: t14888
MP3: t2651
CO: t5827
Button: t13276
SB: t8575
BB: t17892

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero????

Hand 7, $24, 26k

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t300/t600
(Ante: t75)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t8231
UTG+1: t18156
MP1: t5815
MP2: t7653
MP3: t16118
CO: t6885
Hero: t4168
SB: t5998
BB: t5920

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
6 folds, Hero????

Hand 8, $10 Daily Double, Near the money bubble

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t250/t500
(Ante: t50)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t6610
UTG+1: t37666
MP1: t9716
MP2: t13096
MP3: t13915
CO: t4385
Button: t14780
Hero: t10855
BB: t8670

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
4 folds, MP3 raises all-in t13865, 2 folds, Hero????

BlueEcho · #2 05-31-2007, 02:59 AM

Geez you are making me work late tonight. Thus, I make no promises that I am going to be correct here. So with my disclaimer out of the way........here goes.

Hand #1

I much prefer a call here with these stacks. A raise with any kind of juice really kind of commits us. Plus we are getting way better than 3-1.

Hand #2

I'm stuck between raise and shove. I hate shoving because it seems like an overbet but I hate raising and letting villian shove over us. I suppose I'd rather be the one being aggressive here. Especially in a BvB battle. BTW I hate min. raises.

Hand #3

I'm going to use M as a reference point here and say since your M=4.5 this is a good spot to shove it in. I know you have 12+ bbs but the antes make it tough to survive.

Hand#4

I guess if I say shove hand #3 I would be contradicting myself if I said anything else here.

Hand #5

I really don't like KTo here. Maybe I draw a line somewhere between KT and KQ. We are in raise fold mode for sure here and that's alot of people to run KTo thru. I don't think it is a horrible push though.

Hand #6

I'll be interested if people think we should be involved with A5s in such an early position. I would have to think I have a bunch of fe to make a move here.

Hand #7

For me, it's a clear shove and probably the easiest hand of the 8 to play IMO. You have fe because the others are short as well. I often look for stacks that I can hurt with my shove.

Hand #8

Does this range work?

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.749% 54.13% 00.62% 115856710 1326948.00 { 9d9h }
Hand 1: 45.251% 44.63% 00.62% 95527394 1326948.00 { QQ-55, A9s+, KQs, ATo+, KQo }

If so I stand by a call.

kurtkatt · #3 05-31-2007, 03:44 AM

1, omg thats a lot of chippies, me wants em, puuuush. good or bad??

2, i just push, minraise here is so evil making it harder for u to push and lets him off cheap if u do. i guess calling and shoving over c-bets might be sweet, but then id need some betreads. never folding though.

3rd n 4th, could go either way. these are spots were i really wanna have a slightly bigger stack for when hitting the blinds but if there has been a lot of pushing ( not likely with those stacksizes tho) id be more likely to fold.
in the game i probably push the first one and then fold next hand.

5, fold. im thinking all these very short stacks behind us gonna gamble with a lot of Ks and As and pairs here. it would suck to lose half our stack here with kto and then be forced to push one of the following hands too. also i dont really think 10 or 12xbb makes much difference here.

6, fold.

7, oh, im verbally threatening all those frogs and dogs before me to fold so i can be first in here.

8, meh, i guess its a call but think he has 1010, jj here a lot, no wait, was there a moneybubble? so call then.

Tackleberry · #4 05-31-2007, 04:07 AM

So I´ll take a beginners try - gladly accepting any comments [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]:

Hand #1: The odds are very favourable, so at least a call is mandatory. The question is – reraise all-in or flat call? I tend to go all-in as you are oop, UTG+1 with an M of about 7 should have a wide range (even more as the table is shorthanded) and CO could have called with a wide range of hands regarding the odds he got. So go all-in.

Hand #2: Villain could literally make that move with any 2 here so I would reraise and make it 12k to go. If he shoves I fold if I assume he is a more tight player and call, if he is a very aggressive, thinking one.

Hand #3: Make it 9k to go, fold to a reraise.

Hand #4: Make it 9k to go, call a reraise.

Hand #5: With an M of slightly about 4 this is an easy push. You have covered anyone coming behind you, except the BU who surely don´t wand to gamble for half his stack and the BB who just has slightly more than you.

Hand #6: Same situation. Your M got even worst and you are one before the next BB. Shove and hope.

Hand 7#: You have nearly no choice any more with your M of slightly above 2.5. Be delighted that you´ve got an above-average hand and only two remaining opponents. Insta-shove!!

Hand 8#: Without any reads this should be a simple math problem. The pot contains 11,805 (1.200 blinds + antes + your remaining 10,605), it costs you 10,605 to call. This gives you odds of slightly above 1,1:1. Your call would be correct when we assign Villain a shoving range of 77+,ATs+,KTs+,AJo+ which should be the very minimum for him. So shove!!

kurtkatt · #5 05-31-2007, 04:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So I´ll take a beginners try - gladly accepting any comments [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]:

Hand #1: The odds are very favourable, so at least a call is mandatory. The question is – reraise all-in or flat call? I tend to go all-in as you are oop, UTG+1 with an M of about 7 should have a wide range (even more as the table is shorthanded) and CO could have called with a wide range of hands regarding the odds he got. So go all-in.

Hand #2: Villain could literally make that move with any 2 here so I would reraise and make it 12k to go. If he shoves I fold if I assume he is a more tight player and call, if he is a very aggressive, thinking one.

Hand #3: Make it 9k to go, fold to a reraise.

Hand #4: Make it 9k to go, call a reraise.

Hand #5: With an M of slightly about 4 this is an easy push. You have covered anyone coming behind you, except the BU who surely don´t wand to gamble for half his stack and the BB who just has slightly more than you.

Hand #6: Same situation. Your M got even worst and you are one before the next BB. Shove and hope.

Hand 7#: You have nearly no choice any more with your M of slightly above 2.5. Be delighted that you´ve got an above-average hand and only two remaining opponents. Insta-shove!!

Hand 8#: Without any reads this should be a simple math problem. The pot contains 11,805 (1.200 blinds + antes + your remaining 10,605), it costs you 10,605 to call. This gives you odds of slightly above 1,1:1. Your call would be correct when we assign Villain a shoving range of 77+,ATs+,KTs+,AJo+ which should be the very minimum for him. So shove!!

[/ QUOTE ]

2nd, ???

3rd, make that 7500 and im semi-ok with raise/folding at a non-restealhappy table.

4th, if u gonna call a push, pushing this gotta be a lot better?

Tackleberry · #6 05-31-2007, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
2nd, ???

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts where the following: if Víllain is more tight he still can make a blatant steal with almost everything. If I reraise him and he shoves I have an easy fold. If he is an aggressive player instead, expecting me to make a resteal with a wide variety of hands, a shove might just be a try to catch me. In this case I´m delighted as I may have the best hand and a good chance to double up. The question is if a shove would be better if I call his push anyway but I´m not really sure, regarding the stacks - as I really would look for an opportunity to double my stack in this situation.

[ QUOTE ]
3rd, make that 7500 and im semi-ok with raise/folding at a non-restealhappy table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds reasonable, if a raise of this amount would be respected at the table by the bigstacks who could easily call and try to outplay me on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
4th, if u gonna call a push, pushing this gotta be a lot better?

[/ QUOTE ]

I expect my hand to be rather good to stand against most other hands (if I not especially run into AA -QQ) so I do not fear an all-in-confrontation. With my stack being so short, compared to the others, I have to look for a big shot. Just getting the blinds would´nt be enough for me in this spot. So I just don´t want to chase away worse hands with an all-in-bet. Just raise and being called by a medium pair. Bad idea?

kurtkatt · #7 05-31-2007, 06:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2nd, ???

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts where the following: if Víllain is more tight he still can make a blatant steal with almost everything. If I reraise him and he shoves I have an easy fold. If he is an aggressive player instead, expecting me to make a resteal with a wide variety of hands, a shove might just be a try to catch me. In this case I´m delighted as I may have the best hand and a good chance to double up. The question is if a shove would be better if I call his push anyway but I´m not really sure, regarding the stacks - as I really would look for an opportunity to double my stack in this situation.

ok, against an tight player this might be ok, but don´t u think he might 4bet us with a lot of hands (big aces) you should call against esp since we´ve put in a very big part of our stack (getting amazing odds) and only hates to play against other pairs? a push might fold out some of his crappy pairs esp if he is tight. and against an aggro, raise calling is ok probably but we´d rather maximize FE than induce a 50/50? i dont see the need to double as very urgent , we got a stack with great resteal potential and when/if we win this pf we can also steal without going below a restealstack.

[ QUOTE ]
3rd, make that 7500 and im semi-ok with raise/folding at a non-restealhappy table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds reasonable, if a raise of this amount would be respected at the table by the bigstacks who could easily call and try to outplay me on the flop.

agree to some point,if i think i might be called on several spots this sux. BB gonna have a hard time outplaying our shortstack here though so im not very afraid of that scenario. my main goal with this stack is to boost it a little to have better resteal FE. raise folding leaves us at 10bb and is kinda ok assuming ppl won´t come over the top of me light then i´d rather push to try and get that stack.

[ QUOTE ]
4th, if u gonna call a push, pushing this gotta be a lot better?

[/ QUOTE ]

I expect my hand to be rather good to stand against most other hands (if I not especially run into AA -QQ) so I do not fear an all-in-confrontation. With my stack being so short, compared to the others, I have to look for a big shot. Just getting the blinds would´nt be enough for me in this spot. So I just don´t want to chase away worse hands with an all-in-bet. Just raise and being called by a medium pair. Bad idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes i think it is a bad idea to induce a 50/50 or a 40/60 here, see the above on what my goal is right now. further i don´t see many worse hands playing with us, rather slightly better ones that we might fold out with a push.

BlueEcho · #8 05-31-2007, 01:49 PM

I change my answer on the 1st hand, It's a good spot for a push/squeeze.

BarryLyndon · #9 05-31-2007, 10:56 AM

A lot of these are textbook stuff, Rich, but a good exercise nonetheless. Which ones did you have troubles with?:

1. Probably the toughest problem here; UTG's stack is very small and he is putting in a baby raise. This usually means tremendous strength, unless you have a read on UTG (he's a pussy who wants to preserve his small stack and raise small; he's LAGGY and dumb; he overvalues AJ; something like that). UTG MIGHT be doing this with...guh...I lean toward a fold without a read. I just don't see him doing this without 1010+.

2. Push, easy. SB is big, you have enough to push and have FE with a pocket pair.

3. So many big stacks in front of you, so, you are probably thinking "Someone is going to call me loose," but if you are in to win this thing, you need to take some risks and hurt a big stack with a hand that will probably be behind (but not by a whole bunch most of the time) preflop. Your M sucks, if you don't take a stand with KQ from MP now, you're not gonna have any FE later with even worse hands.

4. Same as three, really.

5. Kinduv, sort of, read dependent. If the table is:

1. Tight without any limping up front, only raises, I think this is a push.
2. Loose passive, with resteal opportunities, I wait and push lots of hands from the button, SB, or BB.
3. Loose with players behind me that are capable of making "big calls" with weak aces and small pocket pairs, well, I probably wait another orbit.

6. easy fold.

7. Push. Many Qs, Ks, weak aces fold, J9 will be live when beat many times, suited, blah blah [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

8. Tough one - what is the average stack size on this one? reads on pusher? close, but I probably fold w/o reads.

j_step · #10 05-31-2007, 11:20 AM

hand 1- shove
hand 2- shove
hand 3- shove, your M is very low, like 4, 2 face cards is good for me
hand 4- same a above
hand 5- fold, you hand is very weak
hand 6- shove, you have first in vigorish
hand 7- shove, you needs those blinds and antes, and if you get called you have a good hand not likely to be dominated
hand 8- tough choice, depends on reads of the villian, i prob call this though.