PFRing based on hand strength?

[Landlord79]

I see a lot of FRer's posting that they would have raised bigger with a such and such hand in order to protect it. I know this is an over-talked about subject that should have been taken care of before we came out of the basics forums, but it appears to be prevalent.

The concensus at FR is that a pfr should be 4x BB plus 1x for every limper that has acted ahead of you. A pfr should not be based on your hand strength as this will tip villains off. By making the same pfr regardless of your hand's strength, you deny your enemies critical information that they can use against you. Some vary the size of their pfr by position, but once again, this has nothing to do with their hand strength.

What are some other adjustments that are made to your pfr size that are not dependent on your hand strength?

Also, in tournament NLH, a standard reraise is 4-7x your opponents original raise. This raise size is intended to shut your opponent out by making them fold. In cash games, we're looking to make money with our big hands so we don't necessarily want to shut our opponents out preflop before any big money goes into the pot. What is a standard size for a reraise in FR cash?

[threads13]

I really don't like "standard raises." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I will often make a HUGE raise/reraise if I know the opponent will call too much(and I assume that it will be a mistake against my hand). I will sometimes sweeten the pot with PP's. I know this is dependent on hand strength, but if you randomize then you are going to get the best of both worlds.

I think it really boils down to what you want to do with the raise. The only reason for a standard raise is if things are standard. That sounds like I am being a smart-ass, but I think that words it best.

[Jurrr]

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Also, in tournament NLH, a standard reraise is a shove as stacks are usually around 15BB deep

[/ QUOTE ]fyp

[Landlord79]

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Also, in tournament NLH, a standard reraise is a shove as stacks are usually around 15BB deep

[/ QUOTE ]fyp

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QFT

[Johnes Benjamin]

like threads said its obviously good to bet more if opponent is prone to overcalling.
another consideration is that if they are sort of weak/passive i don't want to necessarily have them fold preflop. I make a lot of money getting people to call raises preflop OOP, then check/folding when they don't hit the flop. People get stubborn after awhile and start looking you up preflop light but will still usually fold if they don't improve, when obviously if they don't believe you the proper thing to do would be to either fold or play back.

[jack frost]

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like threads said its obviously good to bet more if opponent is prone to overcalling.

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I don't see why you need to raise more than 4bb+1bb per limper against people whom over call. Thats what you want them to do not try to fold them. If they are over calling you should have no problem building the pot after the flop.

[Landlord79]

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I really don't like "standard raises." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I will often make a HUGE raise/reraise if I know the opponent will call too much(and I assume that it will be a mistake against my hand). I will sometimes sweeten the pot with PP's. I know this is dependent on hand strength, but if you randomize then you are going to get the best of both worlds.

I think it really boils down to what you want to do with the raise. The only reason for a standard raise is if things are standard. That sounds like I am being a smart-ass, but I think that words it best.

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Please list some further randomizers that prevent you from being predictable. I mean, as stated, even a nit will figure out that pot sweeteners are small PP and big raises are the goods. Fundamental Theory of Poker is now in effect and you will be in trouble. I'm not saying that you are wrong or that your play is bad, I guess I'm asking you to enlighten us.

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like "standard raises." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I will often make a HUGE raise/reraise if I know the opponent will call too much(and I assume that it will be a mistake against my hand). I will sometimes sweeten the pot with PP's. I know this is dependent on hand strength, but if you randomize then you are going to get the best of both worlds.

I think it really boils down to what you want to do with the raise. The only reason for a standard raise is if things are standard. That sounds like I am being a smart-ass, but I think that words it best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please list some further randomizers that prevent you from being predictable. I mean, as stated, even a nit will figure out that pot sweeteners are small PP and big raises are the goods. Fundamental Theory of Poker is now in effect and you will be in trouble. I'm not saying that you are wrong or that your play is bad, I guess I'm asking you to enlighten us.

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I think I know what you are asking. If this is not what you are asking then can you restate for me?

If you are going to make a pot sweetening raise with 22, then you also need to do occasionally do it with AA. I generally simply look for the same situation where I would make a sweetener raise with a worse hand, and then do it with a big hand a small percentage of the time.

[jack frost]

I think if you are raising like 4-7bb with big pp and 3-4bb with stuff like a-q k-q suited ect.. and 2bb or limping with sc's and pp's you are very very predictable and I want you at my table. I think it is better to standard raise(4bb+1 per limper) than to vary your raises in this manner.

However I do vary my raises. I will raise 3bb up front (utg-utg+2) with any thing AA all the way down suited one gappers it doesn;t matter I like to be called and play poker after the flop because I feel most players I can play with after the flop.

From mid pos. on I raise to 4bb+1bb per limper with what ever I am playing. I like to raise 3bb when folded to on the button especially if I have a good hand and some times I will raise to 2.5bb or 4bb if I have been doing this to the same opponent allot just throw them off and make the m suspisious.

I think if you notice more times than not people who say you should have raised more is because of situations like this. Utg limps guy in mid pos. raises to 5bb you make 12bb on the button the donktard in utg smooth calls the guy in mid pos. that raised has a-q suited he knows that you probably have him beat but he is getting a good price to crack your kings and/or stack donkey boy from utg so he calls 7bb into a 29bb pot and flops a str8 stacks you and donkey boy whom had k-10.

Now if you raise to say 15-18bb donktard goes out and a-qs either folds or incorrectly calls which is what you want.

[Jeff76]

FWIW, I make smaller raises PF than most and I do all right. Perhaps I have more of a "small ball" strategy, but I usually raise 3x when I open a pot. This seems to work well for me, but I think I'm going to explore varying opening raises soon just to see how that goes. I will say, however, that most players I see who vary their raise sizes based on hand strength are exploitable and I take pleasure in exploiting them.

With regards to raising over limpers, I pretty much stick to the 4x+limpers forumal because meets the needs for what I'm trying to accomplish. People don't often call these raises, I find, so I don't want to raise more; neither do I want to raise less because most often if I'm raising I don't want multiple callers.

The exception to this is on the button with small pps and suited connectors, which I've begun minraising just to make the pot play twice as big. I KNOW this is exploitable, and I'm going to have to figure out a way to mix up my play there, but it IS fun to do and I get a lot of weired reactions from players when I do it.

When 3betting I usually do 3x whatever the initial raise was whether I am 3betting a strong hand or 3betting light. I do this because I find people fold too much, but I know I'm letting low PPs in light and have to be careful with my overpairss. Still, I seem to be getting value.

Now when there is a raise and a coldcaller in and I have something like aces I generally put in something really big, usually big enough to deny set odds because at that point I'm not planning on folding at any point in the hand. Basically, I feel like with a raise and a call the pot is big enough to take down immediately and I don't care how transparent my hand is if they can't profitably call me.