What to do on the turn?

NicksDad1970 · #1 05-21-2007, 12:56 PM

I first posted this in the midstakes section but realized it might fit B&M better. note from *TT - the mods i chatted with agreed that this thread is best suited to live in the microstakes forum because the stakes, the play, and the stack sizes are comparable. Additionally there are guys in that forum who play in games with straddles on the button so they are well qualified to provide the best real-world experience provide the origional poster is receptive to the fact that he played the hand in a non-optimal way.

I'd appreciate comments on all streets.

Live B&M 1-2NLHE. I have about 225 in front of me covered by everyone.

One thing I need to explain is what's called a Mississippi straddle. A Ms straddle is where you can straddle from any position except the blinds. People usually do it from the button so they can act last on every street.

Ok button straddles for $4. SB raises to 15 BB calls 15. Everyone else folds to me in the CO. I have KhKc. I reraise to 55. Button folds. SB AND BB called.

Flop = Ks5s2c. SB and BB check. I bet $95. SB and BB call. The turn is a non connecting spade checked to me.

What's my play and how did I do pre and on the flop?

crashjr · #2 05-21-2007, 01:05 PM

Easiest push ever? $450 pot and you have $75 behind. You might be good now, and if you aren't you have 10 boat/quad outs. Folding is out of the question since the pot is laying 7:1 if you check and someone puts you in, so just shove it in now.

hayduke · #3 05-21-2007, 01:12 PM

For the love of God, push.

NicksDad1970 · #4 05-21-2007, 01:20 PM

It was checked to me so I sure wasn't folding. Not trying to be a smart arse or anything. If I push then they're getting some good odds. If I check and another spade comes it's a very easy laydown to any size bet.

Ok I had $105 on the turn when it was checked to me. I did push without really having to think about it. The SB went all in for much more and the BB called his all in.

The SB had As9s and the BB had Js8s. The river brought a 4th non pairing spade.

crashjr · #5 05-21-2007, 01:29 PM

Giving a player with a single spade a free card to beat you by checking behind on the turn would be criminal. Sack up and shove. 55+95+105=255, not 225, and you underbet by a fair margin on the flop. Make it $140-$150 and the hand plays itself.

ROADHEAD · #6 05-21-2007, 01:35 PM

Insta push obviously

NicksDad1970 · #7 05-21-2007, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Giving a player with a single spade a free card to beat you by checking behind on the turn would be criminal. Sack up and shove. 55+95+105=255, not 225, and you underbet by a fair margin on the flop. Make it $140-$150 and the hand plays itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry I thought I said I had about 225. I did "sack up" and push.

You're also saying that if I make 140-150 instead of the 95 that both fold? Maybe you're right. If I bet 140 then there's 309 in the pot. So he's getting a little more than 2-1.

The bottom line is I pushed and made what I thought was the right move. I still don't think both of them would have folded their FD. I don't guess I was supposed to want them to.

Dima2000123 · #8 05-21-2007, 07:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It was checked to me so I sure wasn't folding. Not trying to be a smart arse or anything. If I push then they're getting some good odds. If I check and another spade comes it's a very easy laydown to any size bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I agree with this reasoning. If someone is drawing with one spade, you've got 80% equity or something. As far as I understand the whole math of it, when you you have >50% equity, you should always bet, even if your opponent is priced in to call. Having to call a bet is better than folding for your opponent, but both options are worse than getting a free card. You shouldn't provide that option to him.

NicksDad1970 · #9 05-21-2007, 08:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was checked to me so I sure wasn't folding. Not trying to be a smart arse or anything. If I push then they're getting some good odds. If I check and another spade comes it's a very easy laydown to any size bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I agree with this reasoning. If someone is drawing with one spade, you've got 80% equity or something. As far as I understand the whole math of it, when you you have >50% equity, you should always bet, even if your opponent is priced in to call. Having to call a bet is better than folding for your opponent, but both options are worse than getting a free card. You shouldn't provide that option to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really sure if you and I are disagreeing or not. What I was saying that if I would have checked (which I didn't) and a 4th spade would have come on the river against two players it would have been an easy fold to any kind of bet.

If I wanted to be results oriented then I could have said I should have checked the turn because the river brought the 4th spade. But I'm not going to be that way.

I'd say my biggest mistake was not having more money on the table. Then I could have bet more on the turn and then they might have not been willing to call. Then again the SB was gettng a lil more than 4-1 preflop. Ok so up to 70-75 preflop?

badhandoop · #10 05-21-2007, 04:36 PM

So there is $170 in the pot on the flop and you have $170. Given the preflop action and your stack size, shoving is the optimal play. For typical B&M live 1-2, you are getting called by hands you crush anyway AK, KQ, K5s, etc.

I don't think you would've won the hand though. In the games I play, NFD usually calls a pot bet there with a non paired board.