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#1
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no reads, just sat. again, not sure about earlier play either, but as played to you overcall here?
Poker Stars Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $0.50/$1 5 players Converter Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, hero calls, UTG calls. Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10SB, 5 players) SB checks, hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, SB calls, hero calls, UTG calls, CO folds. Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7BB, 4 players) SB checks, hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, SB calls, hero calls, UTG calls. River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11BB, 4 players) SB checks, hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, hero folds. Results: Final pot: 13BB |
#2
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I would raise the flop to protect my hand. Raising in multiway pots also defines your relative strength better as people tend to play more honest multiway.
I wouldnt worry that much about SB by the river, he has Tx or 8x or even worse. The pot is big and UTG's donk seems weird - I call. |
#3
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As played, I think you have to call the river. It's a big pot.
As Oink said, SB looks a lot like a T or an 8, could be a lower pocket pair, now and then Axdd/AQ/AJ. The donk from UTG could certainly be a K, but it could also be a T (some of which you beat/tie), or a terrible bluff after missing one of the many flop draws. And yeah, after CO checks and button bets, I think you should usually raise the flop here. By raising you'll sometimes get CO to fold a hand which should call (AJ/AQ), and once in a blue moon UTG might fold a T (at a stretch, a fruitily-played QQ/JJ) rather than calling 2 bets cold, which would be great. And you want to take away the button's option of checking through the turn w/ a decent draw, A-high, or a smaller pair. |
#4
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I dont really like my middle pair middle kicker in a four way pot - I like to c/r to protect my pair on the flop, and that is what I would do if I thought that Im ahead of button often enough and want to fight for the pot. If I just peel like here Im planning to fold the turn UI.
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#5
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I would c/f the flop.
reasons: 1) Hero dont have the best hand (marginal hand against 4) 2) Bad position. 3) Hero has completely to discount the J outs because of hands like AQ, KJ and the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] makes a flush. Hero draws to 3 Outs and can easily be dominated by AT, KT ... Edit: To answer your question. Fold river UTG wakes up and donks into the aggressor, i cant see u often enough ahead. |
#6
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[ QUOTE ]
I would c/f the flop. reasons: 1) Hero dont have the best hand (marginal hand against 4) 2) Bad position. 3) Hero has completely to discount the J outs because of hands like AQ, KJ and the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] makes a flush. Hero draws to 3 Outs and can easily be dominated by AT, KT ... Edit: To answer your question. Fold river UTG wakes up and donks into the aggressor, i cant see u often enough ahead. [/ QUOTE ] Folding the flop is way too weak IMO. The flop gets checked around to button who bets. Button can have: flush draw, QJ, AJ, AQ, Kx, Tx, 8x. Another thing is Hero's backdoor draws. Any A, Q, 9 and 7 gives Hero a straight draw and any [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] gives Hero a flush draw. These are worth at least a couple of outs. |
#7
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I would c/f the flop. reasons: 1) Hero dont have the best hand (marginal hand against 4) 2) Bad position. 3) Hero has completely to discount the J outs because of hands like AQ, KJ and the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] makes a flush. Hero draws to 3 Outs and can easily be dominated by AT, KT ... Edit: To answer your question. Fold river UTG wakes up and donks into the aggressor, i cant see u often enough ahead. [/ QUOTE ] Folding the flop is way too weak IMO. The flop gets checked around to button who bets. Button can have: flush draw, QJ, AJ, AQ, Kx, Tx, 8x. Another thing is Hero's backdoor draws. Any A, Q, 9 and 7 gives Hero a straight draw and any [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] gives Hero a flush draw. These are worth at least a couple of outs. [/ QUOTE ] Thank you Oink for your reply. You make a good point about the backdoorflushdraw. But I can find some reverse implied odds, when hero has to split a possible straight and looses against bigger flushes on this board. Still the danger of domination is huge here. I think we agree this is a marginal hand with difficult to count clean outs on the flop. Playing those marginal hands well will be the key to master this game. Maybe your right and i play to weak tight. But to improve my play i work especially on position and number of opponents. Both factors seems bad for Hero. |
#8
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I couldn't ever check/fold this flop. If CO (the pfrsr) had bet this flop, there's a case for taking one off and folding the turn unimproved if he bets again. But he didn't - I'd expect 75-90% of online players to bet here in button's position with any 2 cards they coldcalled with preflop (22+/any board pair/any draw/A-high). Checking and folding to this bet is terrible IMO.
Check/call and folding a turn blank is a better option as btn should now (with 3 flop callers) take a free card with his draws, so a bet is more likely to indicate JT is beat. But this line allows button to bet his good hands and take a free card for his draws (possibly as weak as A-high/underpair), so I think the flop raise looks even better. After raising the flop, we can still fold to a flop 3bet & turn bet or a turn raise, and if we reach the river (board as OP), I think we can check and call a single bet. |
#9
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[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't ever check/fold this flop. If CO (the pfrsr) had bet this flop, there's a case for taking one off and folding the turn unimproved if he bets again. But he didn't - I'd expect 75-90% of online players to bet here in button's position with any 2 cards they coldcalled with preflop (22+/any board pair/any draw/A-high). Checking and folding to this bet is terrible IMO. Check/call and folding a turn blank is a better option as btn should now (with 3 flop callers) take a free card with his draws, so a bet is more likely to indicate JT is beat. But this line allows button to bet his good hands and take a free card for his draws (possibly as weak as A-high/underpair), so I think the flop raise looks even better. After raising the flop, we can still fold to a flop 3bet & turn bet or a turn raise, and if we reach the river (board as OP), I think we can check and call a single bet. [/ QUOTE ] What is your line for the turn after a flop c/r when at least sb and bu call. Will you lead the turn or c/c, c/f? |
#10
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I couldn't ever check/fold this flop. If CO (the pfrsr) had bet this flop, there's a case for taking one off and folding the turn unimproved if he bets again. But he didn't - I'd expect 75-90% of online players to bet here in button's position with any 2 cards they coldcalled with preflop (22+/any board pair/any draw/A-high). Checking and folding to this bet is terrible IMO. Check/call and folding a turn blank is a better option as btn should now (with 3 flop callers) take a free card with his draws, so a bet is more likely to indicate JT is beat. But this line allows button to bet his good hands and take a free card for his draws (possibly as weak as A-high/underpair), so I think the flop raise looks even better. After raising the flop, we can still fold to a flop 3bet & turn bet or a turn raise, and if we reach the river (board as OP), I think we can check and call a single bet. [/ QUOTE ] What is your line for the turn after a flop c/r when at least sb and bu call. Will you lead the turn or c/c, c/f? [/ QUOTE ] bet. The board is extremely drawy and villains will call a lot of crap on the flop. If Hero picks up a draw then b/c. If the turn is a brick then b/f. |
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