Small Pocket Pairs, Medium-High Stakes, Help

[Huggy]

I play $2/4-$5/10 and after 25k hand im still unprofitable with PP 66 an under. I was wondering if anyone would care to look at my PT stats and my HH's an try to help me fix this big leak.

[xd777]

i think 20k hands are not that much ... you limp a lot (or even raise first in, late position) and you only hit your set in 1 of 8 ... so its just usual playing the small pps unprofitable! i think its even hard playing them profitable!

[blankoblanco]

Not many hands. You could be hitting sets a lot less often than the expected rate, or getting flushes hit on your sets more than the expected rate, etc. Unless you really think you're doing something wrong, maybe get more hands in to counteract the variance

[Huggy]

after 25k hands is there THAT much varience... unlikely (maybe). Is what I was thinking is this; I raise them from EP if im first in, when someone calls and I c-bet im effectivley bluffing, an the only big pot I'll win is if sumone is callin behind me with AK an flop comes A x (set card).

so if im only raiseing these hands for "shania" (mix in up play) purposes then wouldnt raiseing SC in EP be better (easier to win a big pot)?

Any thoghts

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise them from EP if im first in, when someone calls and I c-bet im effectivley bluffing, an the only big pot I'll win is if sumone is callin behind me with AK an flop comes A x (set card).

so if im only raiseing these hands for "shania" (mix in up play) purposes then wouldnt raiseing SC in EP be better (easier to win a big pot)?

[/ QUOTE ]

In a tough game, it is debatable whether small pairs should be played in EP. Certainly Harrington advises folding 55-22 in EP. The problem is that if you limp with them and call a raise, your hand is pretty obvious and it is hard to get paid off by thinking foes when you spring to life. On the other hand, if you raise with them, you are in no mans land when your out of position c-bet gets called.

Small pocket pairs are fine for set mining at lower stakes, but at mid stakes, if you want to play them in EP, you are going to have to mix up your play. Sometimes raise them. Sometimes limp them. To cover your limps, you will have to mix in some limps with big pairs and big cards too.

As for suited connectors, I disagree that they play better than small pairs in EP in raised pots. Yes, you should occasionally open raise them (and LP > EP > MP in this regard). But mostly you should be folding them in EP and MP if the pot is not opened at 100xBB stack typical tough online games.

[IFeltYourRack]

[ QUOTE ]
after 25k hands is there THAT much varience... unlikely (maybe). Is what I was thinking is this; I raise them from EP if im first in, when someone calls and I c-bet im effectivley bluffing, an the only big pot I'll win is if sumone is callin behind me with AK an flop comes A x (set card).

so if im only raiseing these hands for "shania" (mix in up play) purposes then wouldnt raiseing SC in EP be better (easier to win a big pot)?

Any thoghts

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems like your only thinking of small PP's in terms of their big pot potential. If you can effectively play small pots with them as well you can turn their profitablity from slight losers into modest winners.

Raising SCs from EP occassionally can be good from a Shania standpoint, but your going to be placed in much harder situations with them than the much easier to play PPs.

[CalledDownLight]

I show a profit with every pocket pair and play all of them from every position assuming it is only for a limp or one raise. I think limp/calling is a lot better than open raising a lot of the time, but most of 2p2 will disagree with me on that one. However, you should have each pocket pair only about 100 times so far. If yoy play another 25k hands and still don't show a profit then I think thats a bigger issue. As it is you should only have hit about 13 sets with each pair and there is also variance in your opponents hands making extracting with your sets difficult if they miss the flop.

[jhill3535]

At NL200, I am only profitable with pairs down to TT. The rest are moderately profitable or moderate losers that all kinda even out.

IMO small pairs and SCs should not really be profitable in and of themselves. Playing them and other mediocre hands just help to balance your strategy so that you get action on your big hands. I wouldn't be suprised if 100% of someones overall profit comes from AA and KK, and all of the other hands average to breakeven.

[Klompy]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO small pairs and SCs should not really be profitable in and of themselves. Playing them and other mediocre hands just help to balance your strategy so that you get action on your big hands. I wouldn't be suprised if 100% of someones overall profit comes from AA and KK, and all of the other hands average to breakeven.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but this is off. If you're not making a profit from pp's it's most likely from playing them out of position to often, or playing them otherwise poorly.

[diebitter]

pp, sc and even Axs should all be long term profitable if you play properly.