A few basic spots

mustmuck · #1 05-03-2007, 10:02 AM

Sorry to bore you all with this basic stuff, but here we go anyway. These are all from the same table and aren't in the order they occured.

1)

Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $236.80
UTG+1: $379
UTG+2: $394
MP1: $377.80
MP2: $722.06
MP3: $767.10
CO: $550.20
Hero: $422.10
SB: $2242.30
BB: $438.50

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises to $18, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+2 raises to $112, MP1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Is this standard?

2)

Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $542.70
UTG+1: $370
MP1: $667.56
MP2: $395
CO: $553.30
Hero: $360
SB: $1748.60
BB: $601.30

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($20, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $19, SB folds, BB calls, 2 folds.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($58, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $55.1, BB calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($168.2, 2 players)
BB bets $120, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $120 returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: $168.2

Villain is tight preflop. He's pretty nitty post flop too, but ignore that for now.

3)

Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $230.80
UTG+1: $365
MP1: $290.80
MP2: $694.06
MP3: $751.10
CO: $1491.20
Hero: $394
SB: $2162.50
BB: $625.40

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 raises to $14, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($48, 3 players)
MP1 bets $45.6, CO calls, Hero calls.

Does this call just get me into trouble in later streets? PF probably isn't great either? MP1 is loose/aggro, CO is loose/aggro[in odd spots]/showdown monkey.

davalii · #2 05-03-2007, 10:08 AM

1: yep
2: Looks ok
3: Raise/fold, the guy between you is drawing. But if he´s really nitty just fold. I think i´d raise. You might even get rid of bottom set or something like that.

TheRempel · #3 05-03-2007, 10:53 AM

Are these party hands?

1.) Yeah pretty standard.
2.) I might raise the river because it's hard for him to have the nuts.
3.) Without a lot of confidence in your play on later streets I'd fold preflop. The turn will be difficult to play if they are both playing pretty loose and you may not get the fold you want if a diamond rolls off.

cmyr · #4 05-03-2007, 10:59 AM

you need to have the best [censored] read /ever/ to pop the river (or maybe it's just my image) since he generally has the straight, although it's likely (although not especially certain) that he doesn't have 89; either way I think Pete F. presented the rule a while ago that villians very rarely fold to a bet on the river after improving, and way too often if I take a shot at him here he's going to call with the worst hand anyway.

Hand one is the more interesting one, but since you're closing the action I'd be fine calling. If you were in the middle I'd let it go. There's a difficult balance in these spots between wanting high cards because it's more likely that your flushes will be live, and wanting low cards since it's less likely other players are holding them.... the importance of each factor changes depending on how multiway the pot is. Maybe.

Troll_Inc · #5 05-03-2007, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand one is the more interesting one, but since you're closing the action I'd be fine calling. If you were in the middle I'd let it go. There's a difficult balance in these spots between wanting high cards because it's more likely that your flushes will be live, and wanting low cards since it's less likely other players are holding them.... the importance of each factor changes depending on how multiway the pot is. Maybe.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also factor in what exactly you think MP+1 is betting with and your own play. Is he raising a lot, are you not 3 betting with premium-ish hands on the button?

TheRempel · #6 05-03-2007, 11:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you need to have the best [censored] read /ever/ to pop the river (or maybe it's just my image) since he generally has the straight, although it's likely (although not especially certain) that he doesn't have 89; either way I think Pete F. presented the rule a while ago that villians very rarely fold to a bet on the river after improving, and way too often if I take a shot at him here he's going to call with the worst hand anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take it you mean he's gonna call with a straight anyway, but this is just about the perfect spot for this move and you should be doing it some of the time, if only to generate future calls on boards where you would never raise without the nuts.

cmyr · #7 05-03-2007, 11:24 AM

i think you play with me enough to know that I /do/ make this play fairly often, but I prefer to save it for places where it's more likely to work. Advertising is great but shouldn't ever be a primary consideration.

:not that i think you're saying it is, but just for the record.

mustmuck · #8 05-03-2007, 11:48 AM

1) I have to do some more thinking/research about ranges for calling three-bets. In the hand I only briefly considered folding. I'm pretty sure I generally call three-bets too freely.

2) Fair enough, it seems my line is the most standard one. However, if you were going to try and get somebody to fold a non-nut straight, this would be the guy to try it on.

3) Well, I can't get better at playing later streets without playing later streets ... that said, I wouldn't be attempting to get CO to fold any flush. MP1, perhaps.

Rempel, yeah these are on Party. Do many of you play these games?