poker coaching

[JaredL]

Poker coaching, both for the student and teacher, seems to be getting quite popular on 2+2. I'm not really sure why it's called coaching and not teaching or even tutoring, but I'll accept it and move on. I'm interested in the thoughts and experiences of others who have coached, been coached, or even thought about either. I should point out that I'm in the latter group. I have thought about getting a coach in the past and may in the not immediate but not too distant future.

Just reading the MHSH sticky, there is a huge range of prices ($50-500 per hour, TA also has a $6K clinic), limits covered (micro up to 300-600), and services available (hand and video review, you sweat them, they sweat you, they sell you their HH database, teaching sessions and so on). A lot of the same things are available on the forums directly, albeit not by the same people. You can post a hand in the appropriate forum and get people to review it. Depending on the limit of course, these people that would respond are probably about at your level. The collective mind is certainly better than just reviewing it yourself. After all if you were sure what the right play was you wouldn't have posted it. Similarly, there are hand history swaps and so forth.

I see three main benefits from getting a coach. The first is motivation. Many people have gotten sucked into the Other Topics vortex and don't read the strategy forums or work on their game nearly as much as they should. The sunk-cost fallacy is probably working behind the scenes, but the act of paying someone for it may serve as motivation to work on your game more. In the extreme, whatever is done with the coach is more than the nothing that some people are doing to help their game. The second advantage is probably the most obvious. Coaches are people that can beat whatever game you're playing and most likely are good enough to beat several levels above you, possibly including the highest games available. Getting advice from people that know what the [censored] they are talking about is much better than getting it from people that only know about as much as you. The third advantage is related, and doesn't appear to always be there. There are some services that coaches provide that you just can't get elsewhere. These are instructive things ranging from them teaching you concepts to videos to showing you some of their hands.

The costs are obvious and usually listed in terms of $/hr.

As I said any discussion could be interesting, but I'd be interested in people's thoughts on whether it is worth it for the following types of people (some I think are obvious one way or the other but I add for completeness):
1. Micro stakes players that have no serious motivations to move up. They play mainly for enjoyment, and the couple hundred they win a month is just a slight perk as they have other income.
2. Small stakes (say limit 2/4 or 3/6, NL with $50 or $100 stacks) players that use poker as a second/third income. They haven't played higher. Moving up would be fine but isn't a priority as they want to keep the poker income fairly steady so only would do it over rolled and when they feel like they could solidly beat mid stakes games.
3. Same as 2 but more inclined to move up (maybe secondary poker income not as important).
4. Small stakes pros. Have taken shots at mid limit games with varying success. Would like to move up bankroll and skill permitting.
5-7. Same as 2-4 but for midstakes (say 5/10 - 10/20 or 20/40, NL with stacks 1000 and under).
8. High stakes players, whether pros or not.

Also, I'd be especially interested from coaches on their experiences, their motivation for doing so, and how much they think coaching has actually improved their own game and how they think.

Jared

[eviljeff]

here's a pretty entertaining thread about a coaching relationship gone wrong: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...&PHPSESSID=

note the heroic appearance made by Taylor Caby

[lippy]

I feel there needs to be a thread like this about staking. It would be verryyy fascinating to hear of good and bad staking stories. I don't have one, so I won't start the thread.

[ahnuld]

For the record, I laugh out loud when reading who is willing to coach some days.

[lapoker17]

wow that thread is great.

[Jman28]

I've been on both ends of a coaching arrangement a few times.

I've felt that the student got the better end of the deal in each case, whether I was it or not.

I think that most coaching arrangements are worthwhile as long as the one getting coached is serious about getting better at poker, and will be playing, and therefore reaping the benefits of coaching, for a long time.

One of the main things I learned as a student was confidence in my own ability to make decisions. I'm not sure how to explain it really, but learning that I knew how to think about hands, and realizing that there isn't a 'standard' way to play everything got rid of that feeling of being lost or confused. I almost never feel lost during a hand anymore. I think it came from seeing great players/coaches work through their reasoning for plays, and noticing that the answers usually weren't clear cut.

[king_of_drafts]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been on both ends of a coaching arrangement a few times.

I've felt that the student got the better end of the deal in each case, whether I was it or not.

I think that most coaching arrangements are worthwhile as long as the one getting coached is serious about getting better at poker, and will be playing, and therefore reaping the benefits of coaching, for a long time.

One of the main things I learned as a student was confidence in my own ability to make decisions. I'm not sure how to explain it really, but learning that I knew how to think about hands, and realizing that there isn't a 'standard' way to play everything got rid of that feeling of being lost or confused. I almost never feel lost during a hand anymore. I think it came from seeing great players/coaches work through their reasoning for plays, and noticing that the answers usually weren't clear cut.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT...I had exactly the same experience.

If you are someone seeking coaching, be sure to get a good coach. Seriously, there are some really bad ones out there. REALLY bad.

[Bond18]

I have a coach i do a small amount of time with in MTT's, and i also learn a ton talking with guys with way less experience than me.

We all have a good grasp on a different set of concepts, sometimes you missed something they didn't or vice versa, so you can learn a lot from each other while being on roughly equal terms.

[Isura]

I've had 2 coaches in the past. Now I coach a few people. I agree with jman that the student gets the better deal. I charge less than 1/2 my hourly rate, but still find it rewarding to just be helping people.

[ike]

The only people who shouldn't consider paying for coaching are people who don't have much interest in getting better or who have access to advice from top notch players for free.