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#1
04-25-2007, 05:40 PM
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Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
I know the mods frown on "general" posts, but this has been bugging me a lot.
Scenario: You have the 2nd or 3rd nuts, or the nut flush on a paired board, you have little money invested (let's say 3-5BB for sake of discussion) and your opponent open pushes or check-raises AI for 80-100BB. Is it profitable to call?' It could be just from running bad, but I rarely rarely ever see a worse hand here. I'd like to see what you all think and hopefully have some meaningful discussion. 
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#2
04-25-2007, 05:42 PM
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Re: Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
What street are we talking about?
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#3
04-25-2007, 05:43 PM
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Re: Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
[ QUOTE ]
What street are we talking about? [/ QUOTE ] Does it really matter (please don't take my tone as jerkish)... I fail to see how it's relevant whether it's on the flop, turn or river.
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#4
04-25-2007, 05:51 PM
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Re: Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
[ QUOTE ]
I fail to see how it's relevant whether it's on the flop, turn or river. [/ QUOTE ] If I get check-raised big on the flop while holding the second nut flush I expect to be good here because the typical player will slowplay the nut flush. On the river I'd be significantly less sure. If I hold the third nut flush on the river his check-raise can't be for value anymore which means I only beat a bluff.
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#5
04-25-2007, 06:21 PM
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Re: Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
Street matters because if you have 66 on a 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board and get raised all in or crai I'm calling everytime with the second nuts (at this point in time) because combo draws are most likely in villains range.
On the other hand, river oversize bets nowadays are quite frequently the stone cold nuts where either the villain played incorrectly or slowplayed too much and is trying to make up for lost betting by way overbetting the river. in your example, I can fold nut flush on paired board if this happened on the river. I guess I'm making more folds to river pushes than flop/turn ones. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What street are we talking about? [/ QUOTE ] Does it really matter (please don't take my tone as jerkish)... I fail to see how it's relevant whether it's on the flop, turn or river. [/ QUOTE ]
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#6
04-25-2007, 06:23 PM
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Re: Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
[ QUOTE ]
Street matters because if you have 66 on a 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board and get raised all in or crai I'm calling everytime with the second nuts (at this point in time) because combo draws are most likely in villains range. On the other hand, river oversize bets nowadays are quite frequently the stone cold nuts where either the villain played incorrectly or slowplayed too much and is trying to make up for lost betting by way overbetting the river. in your example, I can fold nut flush on paired board if this happened on the river. I guess I'm making more folds to river pushes than flop/turn ones. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What street are we talking about? [/ QUOTE ] Does it really matter (please don't take my tone as jerkish)... I fail to see how it's relevant whether it's on the flop, turn or river. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] 66 there is the 5th nuts. Let's say you completed in the SB, and someone open pushes for 100BB on that flop... is it profitable to call? I ask people to keep an open mind and review the math. If someone else posted this 2 weeks I probably would have said, "LOLOLOL STFU NOOB AND CALL!!!11!1" but I've really changed my tune as of late, and even more so once I ran the math a little.
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#7
04-25-2007, 07:01 PM
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Re: Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
Haha bad example on my part but I think you know what I'm trying to get at.
Yes I call an overbet on flop from a SB overshove because 1) sometimes players get frisky, 2) draws on the board, 3) you have outs if you're wrong. Also, why river overshoves are dangerous is because some villains go ok let me read the board, ok I have the nuts, I must push. In other words, they want to make sure all cards are out and they can't lose before commiting their whole stack (wrongly of course) and you're drawing dead if you're wrong.
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#8
04-25-2007, 05:43 PM
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Re: Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
i see a pot sized bet or raise on the river as super strong (people dont bluff the river almost ever imo) and if they do it is normally like half pot or sumtin. this is super player depedndant tho and depends on the situation a ton. post a hand or 2 and lets go from their cuz i can think of several situations where i would react differently to each.
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#10
04-25-2007, 05:52 PM
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Re: Stacking off with 2nd or 3rd nuts to massive overbet
I've canabalized someone else's hand history to match a hand I played yesterday.
SB is quite LAGGY Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com Button ($95.50) SB ($80.50) BB ($134.65) UTG ($15.85) MP ($105.00) Hero ($153.55) Preflop: Hero is CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 folds, SB calls, BB folds. Flop: ($9.00) T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players) SB bets $5, Hero Calls Turn: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($19) SB pushes ($70ish more), Hero???????
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