Set against sootedpower5 + drama

[johnbeans]

I wasn't going to post this, but my friend thinks I should so whatever. I'm not sure how many SSNL 2p2ers are also Cardrunners members, but I suspect there's a fair amount of overlap. In one of Taylor's recent video's he talks about raising a small amount (2.5ish) against aggressive players who c-bet on most flops. I think it's obvious if you're going to be doing this to combat frequent c-bets when you miss the flop , then you should also be doing this some % of the time when you do hit. Anyways, I thought this hand was relatively standard, but maybe I'm a big donk.


Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

sfgiant4: $75.65
<font color="black">Kolt04: $831.85</font>
<u>sootedpower05: $200</u>
<font color="black">happydeejay: $66.85</font>
dnh83: $198
<u>Hero: $249.25</u>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">sootedpower05 raises to $7</font>, happydeejay calls $7, dnh83 folds, Hero calls $7, sfgiant4 folds, Kolt04 calls $5

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($28) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
Kolt04 checks, <font color="red">sootedpower05 bets $21</font>, happydeejay folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $52</font>, Kolt04 folds, sootedpower05 calls $31

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($132) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
sootedpower05 checks, Hero checks

<font color="black">River:</font> ($132) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
sootedpower05 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $108</font>, sootedpower05 calls $108

Results in white:
<font color="white"> Hero had 6h 6d (three of a kind, Sixes) and won (+$179)
sootedpower05 had Kc Qs (a pair of Kings) and lost (-$167)

Pot Size: $348 ($3 Rake) </font>
I don't really care how many of you think I did or didn't play this hand bad, but this chat is [censored] retarded/dumb for so many obvious reasons. Sooted, I don't know if you're just running bad or w/e, we've all been there, but you're out of line here.

sootedpower05: god i'm constantly giving you tards too much
credit for thinking
lol pozzament: LOL
sootedpower05: what is LOL is you raising a dry board to run
the donk off nitboy
lol pozzament: 0th level thinking is the new 10th level thinking
sir
sootedpower05: you are a brainles nit
sootedpower05: noted
lol pozzament: sooted calm down, man
lol pozzament: No need to act like this
sfgiant4: haha poor old sooty
sootedpower05: pozzament, not to complain because i made a
terrible read, but you really are awful
sootedpower05: minraising a dry board w/ the donk still left to
act
Dealer: dnh83 has 15 seconds left to act
sootedpower05: you are as braindead as the donk
sootedpower05: why don't you post that hand so everyone can
clown your [censored]
lol pozzament: sootedman
sootedpower05: no
sootedpower05: i'm serious
lol pozzament: Firstly
lol pozzament: I don't ever claim to be anything great
lol pozzament: And you were the pre flop raiser
lol pozzament: I was playing my hand against you not the
"donk"
sootedpower05: but the donk is still in the hand
lol pozzament: That's all i'm going to say
sootedpower05: post the hand
lol pozzament: If you really wanted to talk about the hand
there's a lot better ways
lol pozzament: I don't need to post the hand
sootedpower05: i think you do
lol pozzament: If you feel you need SSNL to back you up
lol pozzament: then post it yourself
sootedpower05: i don't
sootedpower05: i'm telling you this for YOUR benefit
lol pozzament: Why are you acting like this
lol pozzament: ?
sootedpower05: it blows my mind how you can read SSNL and
still play so brainlesssly

[jii]

This guy has always drama at the tables. He's also a huge tiltbox.

[tozzy]

if this Kolt04 guy is such a callingstation/donk, you might have really lossed some dollars here. however, i really hate people berating anyone online, you're surely not the donk here.

[HoldEmNewby]

so you posted this hand for spite?

[HoldEmNewby]

I don't hate flop min raise if you do this with air. If the donk is calling the cbet theres a decent chance he will call the min raise.

What range of hands do you put villain on after flop call? AA, KQ,AK? QQ maybe.

Given your read you felt If you bet turn he folds everything but AK and AA, and probably c/fs river when you fire again? Did you feel your line gets QQ to call the river? Villain seems to respect yourplay so you didn't expect him to try and stackadonk with AA if you bet the turn?

[johnbeans]

I think sooted is going to felt AK/AA against me on this flop, but I don't know if he just calls w/AK/AA on the flop. The turn was a pretty safe card for me so I figured checking through will get value from hands that decide to bluff the river, and from hands that feel they are severely under rep'd looking to snap call river bets.

[HoldEmNewby]

John,

He'd probably lead turn if he had AK or AA no (if he doesn't felt the flop)? So did you put him on KQ or QQ by river?

As for the flop miniraise: Do you do this with air in multiway pots often (or at least occassionally)? Would you do this with a Kx type of hand? 6x? (I'm not being rhetorical i'm genuinely curious as to your range). My only concern is a miniraise in a multiway pot with one player (known for being a donk) behind me usually implies we have a very strong hand, unless of course you do this with draws, weak hands and air.

[carrotsnake]

I love how he's pissed at you for shutting out donk, when by doing that you make your hand ridiculously obvious and he still doesn't fold. Fwiw, I definately just call flop with a donk behind and position and a drawless board. That's a much more +EV play long term.

[johnbeans]

HoldemNewby - It's hard to say if sooted would lead the turn against me w/AA or AK, I'm inclined to believe he would just 3 bet me on the flop. I think his range for calling my flop bet, however bad it might be is larger than QK/QQ. I doubt even sooted could give you a realistic answer of what he is going to be calling the flop with and then checking/leading the turn with. It's all going to be what he's thinking at the time and our current history at the moment.

My range of hands for making flop raises like this is fairly undefined at the moment. I'm not really looking to do it w/any particular group of hands right now. I'm more so just looking to make these raises when I don't think it's likely the pre flop aggressor has made a strong hand. As for doing it in multi-way pots, I'm obviously going to be making this play less, but when the action got to me one player had already folded and I didn't think the "donk" who was still in the pot would really call w/o a strong hand.

carrotsnake - I wish I was using my computer w/my PT database on it, so I could look up Kolt04's stats. However, I seem to remember him beeing pretty loose-passive pre flop and weak-passive post flop. I think sooted's chat about "giving tards too much credit for thinking" or w/e says it all. If I should almost always be calling w/a set on a dry flops w/a donk still left to act and raising w/hands that need to find out where they are or bluffs, then it's going to be pretty easy for thinking players like sooted to play against me. Also, just because a player is a "donk" or has "donk" stats does not mean I should be bending over backwards to try and squeek value out of them in awkward spots. In this particular instance I’m calling for set value against an early position pre flop raiser. I'm targeting sooted in this hand, not the other players who have also called and are also targeting sooted. It's important to remember this because it plays a major role in the psychology of the hand for all the parties involved. In general players who have called a pre flop raise are going to give much more respect to a player who has just called the raise and is showing aggression post flop, than they would the original raiser. While that might seem like a good argument for just calling, I don’t think it’s enough. I’m taking a line I don’t normally use to try and maximize my value against sooted. I don’t want to just call in hopes that this player who has donkish pre flop stats will decide overcall w/some hand like 2nd pair and then continue to put money in on the turn/river.

tannenj – I think there’s a large chance sooted may have folded if I bet the turn. Although he might have just C/R’d AI anyways, I think I get a lot of value from a much larger range of hands on the river by checking through on the turn.

[Fly]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't really care how many of you think I did or didn't play this hand bad, but this chat is [censored] retarded/dumb for so many obvious reasons.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you posting then?

fwiw, flop raise sucks, turn check is good.