speaking in tongues question for christians

Sephus · #1 04-02-2007, 11:44 AM

(insight from nonchristians also welcome)

the "jesus camp" clip reminded me of something that i wonder about.

it seems like there are large groups of christians (especially among certain denominations) who believe in "speaking in tongues" and consider it a very important part of their relationship with god.

if (by your best guess) some, most, or all of them are "faking it" and just babbling, is this at all problematic for you?

i mean, these are sincere (for the most part) christians, right? if anything, as far as i can tell, speakers-in-tongues seems to be among the most committed/devout, or at least they're trying to be.

they have the holy spirit, right? they know god and god is leading them "to the truth." it seems like one would have to be extremely misguided to place great importance on something about which he's completely wrong.

maybe i'm exaggerating just how negative "faking it" is, maybe god just thinks it's "cute," but it just seems that emphasizing the importance/value of such behavior (if it is just babbling) would be highly unexpected among people who are in "close communion" with something like the god of the bible, given the promises god appears to make with respect to "showing people the truth."

i don't really know what i'm hoping for here because i have a feeling that many responses will frustrate me. apologies if it turns out i've started a discussion i don't really have the heart to carry on.

PairTheBoard · #2 04-02-2007, 03:32 PM

I think the term "faking it" is relative and hard to pin down. I suspect most people who speak in toungues honestly believe they are getting into it, at least "honestly" to some degree or another. I doubt there are many there just for kicks who are playing at it with a kind of mocking attitude. Although people being people I wouldn't put it past some of them. What I find more disturbing are those who do something similiar with the religion as a whole. Cynically play acting it for whatever gains they think it brings them.

PairTheBoard

SNOWBALL · #3 04-02-2007, 05:53 PM

I grew up going to a lot of evangelical youth groups, and I've had experiences such as being pushed over by the pastor, or filled with the holy spirit, etc. I wasn't ever faking it, but now I think that my experiences were purely psychological. Speaking in tongues seems a little bit extreme though, so it's not completely unfair to say that some people are faking it. My mom is a big believer, but she's never spoken in tongues. The same with my sister or my mom. However, they have had other strange experiences similar to my own that they intepret as holy or supernatural.

Sephus · #4 04-02-2007, 06:11 PM

i shouldn't have said "faking it," that's not quite what i meant.

Kimbell175113 · #5 04-02-2007, 06:41 PM

But we know what you mean; we kinda have to. If there is no outside force causing this (which we can all 99.999% agree on), and it's still happening, then the believers either

a) feel like there is an outside force, and it's indistinguishable, from their perspective, with a scenario where the holy spirit actually does overtake them
b) don't feel it, but "know" they should, and try to "fake it til ya make it"
c) don't believe at all, and just do it for the benefits of being a member of the group

I think most here would agree that b) is by far the most common.

EDIT: horrible punctuation

vhawk01 · #6 04-02-2007, 06:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But we know what you mean; we kinda have to. If there is no outside force causing this (which we can all 99.999% agree on), and it's still happening, then the believers either

a) feel like there is an outside force, and it's indistinguishable, from their perspective, with a scenario where the holy spirit actually does overtake them
b) don't feel it, but "know" they should, and try to "fake it til ya make it"
c) don't believe at all, and just do it for the benefits of being a member of the group

I think most here would agree that b) is by far the most common.

EDIT: horrible punctuation

[/ QUOTE ]

But if its a), what does that do for the rest of the theists? Does it matter? This would be a glaring example of subjective experience being gloriously flawed and leading to very real-seeming and very fake experiences. Fake in the sense of representing nothing about reality, that is.

godBoy · #7 04-02-2007, 07:35 PM

Hiya,

I speak in tongues.
It's not at all like what you are describing - the holy spirit doesn't take control over you and up comes this language.

You can speak it whenever you wish, as I understand it is a personal prayer language between you and God. I suppose if a parallel had to be drawn - it could be seen as similar to meditation.

JayTee · #8 04-02-2007, 07:59 PM

Its a group thing. They would feel stupid if they didn't get the "holy spirit". Whether or not they fully realize it, I have no clue and doubt that it's worth considering. I would expect most mainstream Christians would feel hard-pressed to say this is stupid, something about not wanting to justify or bring under scrutiny their own equally ridiculous rituals.

I remember going to one of these wacky, snake handling churches with a friend when I was about 13. He had been going all of his life and said everybody was faking. I think he was right.

Sephus · #9 04-02-2007, 08:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hiya,

I speak in tongues.
It's not at all like what you are describing - the holy spirit doesn't take control over you and up comes this language.

You can speak it whenever you wish, as I understand it is a personal prayer language between you and God. I suppose if a parallel had to be drawn - it could be seen as similar to meditation.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for replying. "speaking in tongues" means different things to different people.

does your personal language have an actual lexicon and syntax? if not, it's not really a language. if it does, i would be very interested in studying it, as it would be among the strongest evidence i've seen yet that god exists (assuming you're fluent in it and could do some extemporaneous translating for me).

also, you never answered any of my questions.

godBoy · #10 04-02-2007, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
does your personal language have an actual lexicon and syntax? if not, it's not really a language. if it does, i would be very interested in studying it, as it would be among the strongest evidence i've seen yet that god exists (assuming you're fluent in it and could do some extemporaneous translating for me).

[/ QUOTE ]
My own language has a vocabulary / syntax but I could not translate it - for the majority of those(and I) who speak in tongues don't know what they are saying. The 'language' of tongues that most Christians speak is an unknown language that is a prayer language of sorts between a person and God. The reason that people do it is because it is because they believe it is beneficial to their spirit and others.

[ QUOTE ]
also, you never answered any of my questions.

[/ QUOTE ]
if (by your best guess) some, most, or all of them are "faking it" and just babbling, is this at all problematic for you?
If most are faking it then it means that people who label themselves Christians don't have a great deal of intellectual integrity.

i mean, these are sincere (for the most part) christians, right?
I have no way of knowing.