$5.50 - KK - When to slowdown?

Sk00l4m3nts · #1 03-28-2007, 07:25 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB (t1660)
Hero (t2749)
UTG (t1913)
UTG+1 (t1997)
MP1 (t1560)
MP2 (t1457)
CO (t1637)
Button (t527)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t50, 5 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to t200, UTG calls t150, SB folds.

Flop: (t450) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t300, UTG calls t300.

Turn: (t1050) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t500, UTG calls t500.

River: (t2050) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t913, UTG calls t913 (All-In).

Final Pot: t3876

Little John · #2 03-28-2007, 07:29 PM

I hate to nit pick, but I think you need to raise this to 250 preflop (150 standard raise + 50 each per limper). The rest of the hand will be alot easier to play.

React1oN · #3 03-28-2007, 07:37 PM

LJ,

Why will be making it 250 to go PF, make it so much easier? Thins out their range?

Little John · #4 03-28-2007, 08:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
LJ,

Why will be making it 250 to go PF, make it so much easier? Thins out their range?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if only one opponent calls you it is going to be very easy to play because you are for sure getting all your chips in the middle. It also sets up a c-bet if an ace flops (you can c-bet vs one opponent, but not vs two). I guess if both call you the hand is still going to be difficult. But the main reason I like to raise to 250 in this spot is to start building a pot with such a poweful hand.

Kevin8423 · #5 03-28-2007, 08:36 PM

250 pf is bad, please don't do that. As an example..

250pf.. pot on flop is 550. Flop: A59r

C-Bet costs you atleast 375 maybe even more like 425. Villain shoves over and you fold. That costed you 700 just to C-Bet and fold. Keep the pot smaller pf. You also don't want to keep out potential callers because it might be a JJx flop.

Little John · #6 03-28-2007, 09:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
250 pf is bad, please don't do that. As an example..

250pf.. pot on flop is 550. Flop: A59r

C-Bet costs you atleast 375 maybe even more like 425. Villain shoves over and you fold. That costed you 700 just to C-Bet and fold. Keep the pot smaller pf. You also don't want to keep out potential callers because it might be a JJx flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you want to build a pot with KK?

EscapePlan9 · #7 03-28-2007, 09:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
250 pf is bad, please don't do that. As an example..

250pf.. pot on flop is 550. Flop: A59r

C-Bet costs you atleast 375 maybe even more like 425. Villain shoves over and you fold. That costed you 700 just to C-Bet and fold. Keep the pot smaller pf. You also don't want to keep out potential callers because it might be a JJx flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

A little contradictory? You advise not raising to 250 because it makes the c/b more expensive if the flop is A-high, but then you say don't worry about donkeys hitting a lucky flop like JJx. How about don't worry about any flops - you have KK and you're nearly 100% of the time putting in money as a HUGE favorite pre-flop, then the flop often doesn't come A-high, and even when it does, they often give up if they don't have the ace.

I like 200-250 pre-flop the best here. With a hand as strong as KK, I like 200. With JJ-QQ, I like 250.

futuredoc85 · #8 03-28-2007, 10:27 PM

250 pf is fine, 200 is fine, less than 200 is much worse than 250

codewarrior · #9 03-28-2007, 07:41 PM

Paired board. PF raise was fine. This is a push/fold. With no reads, this is tough in a $5 donkament. I'm 50/50 push/fold here. Villian had AJo, yes?

Kevin8423 · #10 03-28-2007, 07:47 PM

As played I would say either shove turn or check it down and try to get a showdown, no real way to get information from villain at this point that I can see.

I would probably just check the flop and turn. If your opponent has a J youre likely to see a bet on the river, probably for an amount you can call so you won't be all in like in OP. You can also make a bet on the river and fold to big raise expecting that to be a J.

Do not raise to 250 pf, that is far too much. I like 150-175 and if you really love that rule then go for 200.