Another 88 hand

[Watkins]

No reads on this guy at the time... So what's our move? WA/WB and bet if checked to?

Pacific Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
6 folds, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, CO folds, Hero ....

[Grease]

First off, we're not WA, WB. Do you see why?

I raise the flop and go from there. If he treys, I call and fold turn UI, but if he calls, I reevaluate turn.

[Watkins]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, we're not WA, WB. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! Because we ain't WA, assuming this guy isn't retarded we're ahead of UI overs that have up to 6 outs or WB this guy with 2 outs.

I played it as suggested but thought it would be fun to call down from the turn...

[fretelöo]

yeah, raise flop. If just called, I prolly stick one in on the turn and, if just called again, might assume he's not calling often enough on the river with anything I beat and check behind.

[nichtsnutz]

[ QUOTE ]
If he treys, I call and fold turn UI

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that at least questionable? You are like a 1:23 dog to improve and get 1:11 on that call. For metagame purposes it is not too smart to be regularly folding to flop 3-bets after raising but you have 2 outs...

[Second Toughest]

In the past I’ve hemorrhage cash on small and middle pairs. Am now having a re-think about how to play these hands. I think only value of small/ middle pairs is for a set. To that end I wouldn’t raise pre-flop.

If you take the position that 88 is a premium hand and worth a raise pre-flop, you couldn’t get a much better board than this (just one relatively low overcard). So, if I were you I’d raise the flop, but as I’m me I’d fold (….unless my pre-flop limping had kept more players in…and improved the implieds).

[Grease]

I call because it would look horribly weak to fold, and you could fudge the implied odds to make the call less incorrect.

I think it is -EV in a vacuum, but when you factor in the fact that you won't get played with as much, it becomes much closer.

[valence]

raise, call if he three bets and fold the turn if unimproved.

[bung]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, we're not WA, WB. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tried to see why we're not WA/WB, I thought OP's answer explains why we might be WA of UI overs, and WB the T, but I don't see why we're NOT WA/WB here....

Please explain Grease [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Man of Means]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First off, we're not WA, WB. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]
Tried to see why we're not WA/WB

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is SA/WB (slightly ahead or way behind) hands that generally bet into the field on this flop... He's slightly ahead if villain has a flush draw+overs, or flush draw+middle pair, or bdfd + 2 overs, etc. Hero is way behind (only 2 set outs &amp; backdoor draws) if villain has a pair of tens or better.

fyi WA means that hero has the best hand currently and villain has few (usually &lt;=5) outs to improve.