A234 - Mixed emotions, Stars 15/30

BarbarianX · #1 03-15-2007, 11:20 PM

This is a hand that gives me mixed emotions, you dont get it that often, can't recall I ever won with it (it's eazy to remeber because you always get so excited when you see it). I don't want to be to result-oriented, but isn't this kinda familiar? Please tell me I played it badly so I can regain some hope.

PokerStars 15/30 Omaha/8 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, MP1 calls, SB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

fishyak · #2 03-16-2007, 12:27 AM

After it goes HU PF, why bet out on that lousy Flop? You need to catch a low for half. And you bet the turn into the card the completes the spade flush? Why? You are looking to get to your nut low draw cheap. So you get what you asked for, I seriously question how you played this hand. When the club flush does not show up and there is no chance of a scooping wheel, this is a low hand only and you needed runner-runner. I find it hard to get aggressive with low hands because: 1) lows don't come in as often as you might think, 2) when they do, being quartered or sixth'ed really sucks and, 3) I've seen A234 all counterfeited for a "great" hand of 4 pairs.

I play lower limits, but I think you got caught speeding.

BarbarianX · #3 03-16-2007, 01:24 AM

thanks lol

guess you're right, I didn't just wanna give it up on the flop, and then I got a little hope on the turn, but when he checkraised me I saw so many cards that probably would give me half the pot if I only invested a little more, because I was kinda certain by then he had a high hand. I think it was wrong to raise pre-flop, that's where the problems started...

But I think you're right in your analysis, I have to shape up.

fishyak · #4 03-16-2007, 10:54 AM

Do you play a lot of LHE and some O/8 like a lot of us? If so, this smells of one of those shifting gears between games issues that we all need to watch out for. Not making the low and a high percentage of counterfeits are issues that simply do not exist in LHE or NL. Great cards PF are great cards no matter what in those games. The worst case is that they have no connection with the board. In LHE when you have great cards PF, the general rule is to hit the gas and "ram and jam" until someone kicks your teeth in. O/8 just doesn't seem to reward playing that way. My better sessions come from slower acceleration, particularly post-flop and accounting for the number of players in the hand. And with split pots, how many hands are you going to win just by running over people? Very few. For me, good cards aren't really good cards until the flop in O/8.

wackjob · #5 03-16-2007, 03:13 AM

you butchered this hand at every stage, other than the river which you should have never gotten to.

raising PF: hate it. if 4 or 5 people limp in front of me and I have this hand in the blinds I will raise for pure lo value, but with only 2 players in, its a really bad idea. you are rarely going to scoop with this type of hand, and when you do you are unlikely to get much action because your hand will be transparent.

since you did raise, ok, now you have to play the flop. betting is not atrocious, however I doubt you will ever pick up this pot on the flop by betting, but c/f is the best play here IMO. since you bet, ok, lets play the turn. ok, the scare of all scares gets there, completing flushes, straights, etc and instead of checking, you bet(you hate money I think?) getting 3.5:1 on your bet to pray your villain folds??? i don't get it, and then as soon as he raises you are getting 6.5:1 to call for a draw to ONLY 1/2 the pot where you are praying any one of 26 cards will give you the nut lo for your half, AND praying your villain doesn't have a hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], or any hand that can 1/4 you on a river lo and obviously take the hi. so you making a crying call here and c/f the river when you have nothing. awful all around.

lesson here: don't raise PF and you can make an easy c/f on the flop and save yourself a LOT of bets. if you play this badly all the time I can't imagine you are beating the 15/30 games anywhere.

Dire · #6 03-16-2007, 06:47 AM

..you didn't check raise the river.

BarbarianX · #7 03-16-2007, 11:04 AM

Sarcastic, huh? I'm not sure, sometimes it's a thin line between being a genious and and idiot (like me)...

My repution as a LO8 player (if I ever had one) is ruined after this post I guess, but let me just explain the reasons for posting this hand...

I never thought I'm an excelent omaha plater, but I will play a couple of thousand hands at 5/10 - 30/60 (Stars)because I've noticed that more than 50% of the players play more than 30% on the flop and I have an idea about playing übertight, to see if I can beat the game.

When this hand came up I was almost sure I had given up too many hands too early postflop and since I almost never raise preflop, only som AAxx hands, I thought I should mix it up a little. So when the flop came I said to myself, "Don't give up another hand that easily, represent AAxx and bet out!" I guess this flop was kinda good for an AAxx and when my opponent called me I knew that there was a slim chance he would fold the turn if he put me on an AAxx, but when the 3 came I should probably have stopped. I still think though that calling the turn is correct after his raise (bluffing isn't completely uncommon HU 15/30 and an A, 2, 3 or a 4 could actually have scooped the pot for me).

Frond · #8 03-16-2007, 11:15 AM

I wouldn't say your rep is ruined. I think that all who replied agreed that it is a dump after the flop. In the long run it is a losing play.

fishyak · #9 03-16-2007, 11:30 AM

To quote Master Yoda (kind of) "One hand should not a reputation make." And another cliche: "Let he who is without LAGGY tendencies post the first flame." We've all been guilty of hitting the gas too hard on some hand at some point. I have 'em too. And in hindsight, they always look really ugly.

I don't mind calling the turn after the raise, either. But I do think that betting it out in the first place was a mistake unless you are truly going to bluff it out. Busted bluffs will look ugly in hindsight.

I made another O/8 post where I posited that O/8 may require more PF and flop patience than LHE and there are times long streaks where that "ubertight" style is correct but tough to maintain.

There appears to be enough different O/8 styles that there is more than one way to win. Hence the value of this board and of differing opinions. But there is also the hard math that is like the law of gravity; there is no escape except for rare bluffs.

My style is very different than yours, but I play 3/6 full kill live with LAP's and LAG's galore. HU's is rare and usually checked down.

J_V · #10 03-16-2007, 08:27 PM

You hate raising preflop????????

Not raising this is a crime against humanity.

I check the flop most of the time I(edit - always).