Are today's parents enabling their kids to be self-centered?

[Myrtle]

Mod Edit:

Full text of the article removed. Here's the link:

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/famil...spoiler_alert/

I think it's a pretty interesting article about parenting styles to think about. For those of us that are not parents, we're not as far away from it as we might like to think.

[MrWookie]

Myrtle,

I'd send you this in a PM, but your box is full:

Even though it's free, posting the entirety of the article, even with citation, is against 2+2 policy. The topic is an interesting one, but I'd encourage your first post to be a link with some of your own commentary, perhaps with a few choice quotes, rather than the whole article. I encourage you to edit it quickly so that you can include a link. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to delete the full text of the article.

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
Myrtle,

I'd send you this in a PM, but your box is full:

Even though it's free, posting the entirety of the article, even with citation, is against 2+2 policy. The topic is an interesting one, but I'd encourage your first post to be a link with some of your own commentary, perhaps with a few choice quotes, rather than the whole article. I encourage you to edit it quickly so that you can include a link. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to delete the full text of the article.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad....My Apology.

Too late to edit.

Please delete.

[MrWookie]

What's the link? I'll put it in place of the article in my edit.

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the link? I'll put it in place of the article in my edit.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/famil...spoiler_alert/

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
Mod Edit:

Full text of the article removed. Here's the link:

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/famil...spoiler_alert/

I think it's a pretty interesting article about parenting styles to think about. For those of us that are not parents, we're not as far away from it as we might like to think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for fixing my booboo, Wook.....

The reason that I posted it is that it speaks to so many things that I see happening in today's society in the USA (don't know if it's an issue elsewhere).

As a "boomer" I have to ask....What the hell have we brought upon ourselves?

I see Boomers as the first generation to go down the road of overindulging our children to the point where their value systems are so skewed that their ethical standards are based more upon their personal wants rather than some ethical system of values.

IMO, the movie "Wall Street" and Gordon Gekko's statement of "Greed is Good" succinctly captures the beginning of this runaway freight train.

[MrWookie]

Myrtle,

I was just thinking about this sort of thing today, actually. It seems to me like my grandparents had a pretty rough life, especially by today's standards. They lived through the Depression, the Dust Bowl, WWII. In those times, you were either disciplined and hard working, or death was a very real possibility for you and/or your family. They naturally want their kids to have a better life than that, so they pass on as best they can the values of hard work and discipline, and they also indulge their kids with some of the "modern" amenities they can now enjoy in better times.

In the next generation, one could pretty easily say that times weren't as bad. There was still the Vietnam war and accompanying draft, the Cold War, inflation, etc., but I'd still say they were better off. Consequently, the motivation for busting your ass is going to be lessened, and this generation is indulged more. Still, though, this generation has had plenty to work through, and it's only natural to want your kids to have a better life. They pass on their somewhat diminished work ethic, and they continue to indulge a little.

So that brings us to my generation. We've been largely at the peak of economic prosperity, and the wars I've lived through have had a surprisingly low impact on real day-to-day life, especially compared to WWII and Vietnam. Our "national motivation," if you will, for ass-busting is at an all time low, and the power to indulge is quite high. Consequently, concerns of survival have long been passed up by concerns about showing off. This is obviously a very loose argument of generalizations, but I think there's something here worth thinking about.

As I was thinking about how I'd raise my own children, I would really have to balance wanting to get my children to live a good life and trying to foster in them an attitude of hard work. And see, trying to teach children hard work is much easier when they need to work hard out of necessity, not just "because I said so." There were plenty of children in my generation who cracked and rebelled against parents who expected the best "because they said so." OTOH, the kids who did the best in school were the ones who had the fear of God that if they didn't bust their ass, they wouldn't be able to find a good job.

I've felt this phenomenon throughout my life, and I feel it now. A little fear is a good thing. I had it in high school. I had it at some points in college - the points where I was doing my best work. I've lost a lot of it now, and I know for a fact I'm not working hard enough. However, the right kind of fear in the right doses will bring out the best in people.

"If you don't go out and plow that field right now, the wind storm will sweep away all our top soil and we'll starve."

"If you don't go off to fight the Germans, your family is going to be singing 'Deutschland, Deutschland, Ueber Alles!'"

"If you don't charge up that beach head, you're going to die here in this boat."

"If you don't work hard in school and go to college, you'll be drafted and in Vietnam within a month of your 18th birthday."

A little bit of fear is a powerful motivator, and I think that all the trouble prior generations have gone through to remove it has, to a degree, been to our detriment. This post has gone on much longer than I anticipated, so I'll conclude with asking for thoughts on balancing the desire for your kids to have a better life than you with wanting them to have a little bit of this extremely effective motivation for maintaining that lifestyle.

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]

I see Boomers as the first generation to go down the road of overindulging our children to the point where their value systems are so skewed that their ethical standards are based more upon their personal wants rather than some ethical system of values.



[/ QUOTE ]


Forgive me if I'm being dumb on this issue but I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. Are you saying that previous generations did not base their life choices and "standards" on personal wants? Haven't all generations been somewhat conceited and self-serving, just in different ways?


What I'm getting from these posts is that 20 somethings today have a poor work ethic. But it's not like the hippies of the 1960s had a good work ethic either, right? I mean they were raised by conservative, disciplinarian parents and yet I got the impression that a lot of them didn't want to work very hard and indulged in kind of kooky, self-involved lifestyles. In addition, I see a hell of a lot of people in my company who are in their 40s who have a ridiculously lax work ethic themselves. I'm just not sure if it's valid to point fingers at the over-indulgent parents or not.

To be honest, I frown on a lot of my friends' funky parenting styles. It's appalling (lol, I always think of Simon Cowell when I use that word [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) I can't stand how selfish a lot of today's parents are. I guess I'm just not sure the indulging parents are to blame for the state of our society. I can't figure it out. There are so many narcissistic shallow people running around of all age groups. I am not convinced that parents coming from a position of indulgence and love are necessarily to blame. If these indulgent parents are role modeling good work ethics, wouldn't the kids pick up on that at some point down the road? I don't know, I might be completely wrong. I need to give this more thought.


I think it's interesting what jfk said about people "branding" themselves. Sort of depressing to think that in this consumer-based society we are all just trying to sell ourselves but I think this is what's going on. I don't like it. Makes me think we're all shallow.

[hyde]

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It's appalling (lol, I always think of Simon Cowell when I use that word [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) I can't stand how selfish a lot of today's parents are. I guess I'm just not sure the indulging parents are to blame for the state of our society. I can't figure it out. There are so many narcissistic shallow people running around of all age groups. I am not convinced that parents coming from a position of indulgence and love are necessarily to blame.
Makes me think we're all shallow.

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I could write a book.
Working title: I raised three teenagers and may live to write about it.
This topic is really complex. There is an element of nature vs nurture and certainly a shift in how society influences children.
Background: I have three children within 5 years, the youngest is 17. I have been in the trenches for a long while. Two of my children are 'perfect', great grades, no disciplinary issues, good work ethic, totally more reasonable than I was at that age. third child....we'll call him Damian, has been the challenge for a lifetime. I know way too many police officers by first name. The family savings was spent on a boot camp in West Virginia, He has no ability to defer gratification. Little ability to accept responsibility.
Chapter ONE: The cattle prod, teaching tool or a bit much?
Interestingly he is incredibly thoughtful around his grandmother. Like I said, this is complex.
And very similar nurturing has produced very different behaviors. Nature wires all of us differently.
I believe society has always had a flawed percentage of parents. Perhaps our culture has increased that percentage with a slide into narcissism. I can't imagine 25 years ago that 'Anna Nicole to be buried tomorrow!!" would have been 'breaking news'. Or a rich socialite riding a sex tape to fame and adulation, Or teenage girls giving blowjobs as party favors because it was not sex. Advertising anything from tag body spray to cars to boats as a path to getting laid more is IMO a cultural decline.
Yes, the evolution of our culture and society has increased the challenge of teaching our children.
Chapter TWO: Television, boone or bane?
Are parents enabling? Yes the percentage is increasing. I coached, the kids were good and challenging to work with, the parents were the pits. (25% of them).
As the percentage of enabling parents increases the number of children being raised by enabling parents increases. These children are less likely to know how to raise children without enabling and on and on and on. It is mathematical. It is a increase of enablers.
Chapter THREE: Require a license to have kids? Vasectomy upon birth? (they are reversible these days)
I (they) was lucky not to have children until I was 30+. I was not mature enough until then. I was challenged often these last 20 years, there were times I made the wrong decision. If I had it to do over I would have made better use of say...duct tape.
Back to enabling. I was involved in a group something or other many years ago, BK (before kids) and people were sharing their asses off about upbringing. The spoiled ones wished their parents were stricter, the strictly raised wished their parents had been more permissive.
Chapter FOUR: You are an adult, it's not your parents fault anymore.
Which reminds me, I recently wrote an open letter to my mother and my children. Thanking my mother for raising me the way she did. Manners. and ethics. And telling my children that they were pretty much adults and I was available for advice ( and would try my damnedest to keep away from the unsolicited kind) but they had the best foundation I could give them and life was now their responsibility. And don't feel bad about pulling the plug.
Chapter FIVE: I made what I thought was the best decision at the time.
Subtitle: too bad for you I wasn't smarter.

/end coffee buzz. good for them I gave up everything else.

sorry if this wandered and rambled.
Oh, and on the quote above. Simon Cowell, his behavior and his popularity speak volumes about our societies decent.
And no, we are not all shallow, talking about it, thinking about it, just knowing about it, is having left the shallow end of the pool. AND it is damned crowded in that end.

hyde

[Fishwhenican]

[ QUOTE ]
[But it's not like the hippies of the 1960s had a good work ethic either, right? I mean they were raised by conservative, disciplinarian parents and yet I got the impression that a lot of them didn't want to work very hard and indulged in kind of kooky, self-involved lifestyles.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where it started! Damn Hippies! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

All parents should be like my Hero:

Red Forman


Bob Pinciotti: You know Red, that hurts.
Red Forman: So does a swift kick in the ass.
Bob Pinciotti: You know, Red, a kick in the ass isn't the solution to everything.
Red Forman: I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with that, Bob.