i HATE this river play. Q9s bluff....

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

SB is a pretty standard TAG, rarely gets tricky and has been pretty much avoiding the crazy action between the other players at the table (in particular me and UTG), somehow i have his vip at <20 after ~200 hands... probly reads me as a crazy lag due to how ive been playing vs 2 of the other players at the table.

i hate this river, as both options seem so wrong.

when i check the turn i pretty much scream that i have QJ/Q9/J9 and i would figure he knows that. therefore a river bet makes no sense except as a pure bluff.

otoh, as jamie gold says, 'if you know your opponent has ace high, you should bet right?'

hand: 5/10 6 handed

everyone folds and i raise Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] otb. UTG coldcalls and BB folds.

flop 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, i bet, SB calls.

turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks, i check.

river: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, i bet??

[kerowo]

I think the only thing you beat here is 56o, I can't imagine villain calling down here with J high, the only way you can win is to bet but it's got to be a b/f. Then again, this is short handed and I don't play that enough.

[Joe Tall]

This pot is really small to have to worry about bluff betting, if I could right you are getting 3.5:1~ which would mean your bluff bet would have to work ~30% of the time. I think not. Give up on it and check through.

[DexterJoe]

Did you mean the SB called PF, not UTG?

Why didn't you bet the turn? (Sorry - I am new to this also and I am trying to understand the plays.) I would think if you were going to bluff at this it would have been on the turn AND the again on the river, once the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] came out - you could have made trips or the flush or have a big pair, JJ or better. Those are the hands I can see fitting your betting here if I am your opponent up until the turn. After the turn, I am putting you on a flush draw or big pair. I think it "screams" (as you said) flush draw.

[Point Blank]

i think an opponent who is watching the action of the table (even a little) will call in this spot with ace high

I would expect you to continue to bet a flush draw, any board hit, any pocket pair, or straight draw ... as played most (I would think) would put you on pure B.S if you bet the river (perhaps that's what villian is doing here with bottom pair or something - knowing you are an aggressive opponent you may try to bet this with ace high or a lack of ace high and fold to his lead)

how often do you bet the turn? ... you pick up a few more outs with the 8 hitting - why not try to represent (I would bet here almost 100% and check behind the river in most spots, as it's pretty likely villian will call me) ... are you trying to get some 'street credit' or something [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Shillx]

Do you ever play a pair this way? I'm basically snap calling with A-high in this spot b/c it seems doubtful that a reasonable player would.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

standard plays:

vil bets the river with any pair as he knows i will call with A-hi or K-hi.

vil generally 3bets preflop with any A.

the question is whether i can fold out K-hi or QJ... pretty sure just about anyone snap calls the river with an ace vs me.

[Shillx]

You might be able to fold out some better hands. The problem is that you might get check/raised by those same hands or by even worse hands (travesty if J9 c/r's and then you muck the winner). When you add everything up it seems very unlikely that this bet has value and there is a fair chance that it is significantly -EV.

OTOH how sick would it be if he check/raise value-bluffs with QJ after you call it with Q9. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Hoskinator]

I don't like betting/bluffing on the end with queen high when someone has cold called a raise.

he could have a small pair but is afraid you also have small pair with a higher kicker. I don't think that is what is happening in this case but I have seen it happen.

just check it and hope for the best. If he had a king or Ace he is going to call a bet and you would lose one big bet, if he has less than a queen then he won't call the bet.

[James.]

pot is tiny. i also think you will have the best hand here often enough to warrant just checking it down.

for the record, checking the turn is good for inducing bluffs not setting them up. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]