3-bet the Turn with KK on a draw heavy board.

[brick]

12/24 live
UTG limps (slightly loose, straightforward), MP raises (sometimes LAG, sometimes TAG), I 3-bet next in with black KK. All fold to BB (LAG) who calls, MP1 calls.


Flop: 8h 7h 5s

BB checks, UTG bets, MP calls, I call, BB calls.

Turn: Qs
Check, UTG Bets, Raise, I 3-bet?

I have a tight image so they probably put me on QQ, KK, or AA here.

[danzasmack]

edit to fix action plz

[Brad1970]

IMO, you need to hammer that flop. 4 way action on the flop with a possible str8 out there & you just call with an overpair???

Well, if they give you credit for a big PP, then they damn sure ain't scare to gamble with you. UTG has bet into twice. Make the draws pay in this spot.

[7ontheline]

Nice hand. Raising the flop does nothing for you if you're trying to make draws pay, the pot is too big. Anybody with a flush or straight draw would get odds even if you raise. That turn action is perfect for you (as long as you are still ahead, hopefully).

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop does nothing for you

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It gets more money into the pot when we have the best hand. I raise this flop for value 90% of the time.

[YourAce]

Dont take your foot off the peddle, bet\raise every street and let them pay for the draw! What could both have on turn? Just top pair, hit two pair, slow played a set, or betting the draw? If they know you are tight and they are betting into you, your hand may not be best at this point.

How did the hand end?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop does nothing for you

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It gets more money into the pot when we have the best hand. I raise this flop for value 90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you agree more if you had QQ or JJ?

b

[7ontheline]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop does nothing for you

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It gets more money into the pot when we have the best hand. I raise this flop for value 90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the full sentence was "Raising the flop does nothing for you if you're trying to make draws pay which was in response to the poster saying that you were giving cheap cards to draws. Your raise for value is not necessarily a bad play, but not really directly a response to what I said. Anyway, enough nittiness.

I understand pumping the flop to try to increase the pot for value but isn't this a situation straight out of HPFAP? Waiting for the bigger street to raise because the raise on the flop will fold nobody? Anyone with a legit draw has odds regardless, and a raise on the flop doesn't even make it incorrect for gutshots to draw at you. If a straight card or flush card was going to come and beat you, then you had no shot anyway. However, now you've gotten to put a lot of bets in on a big street - more money in the pot plus weaker draws that could still beat you don't have odds to call. If you raise the flop, isn't there a good chance people will check to you on turn and then all you get is 1 BB on turn from everybody? If this is a table where it's crazy and raises are going in and people are going to the river no matter what then I agree that we just pump and pray.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop does nothing for you

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It gets more money into the pot when we have the best hand. I raise this flop for value 90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i won't say how much i raise this flop, but it is definitely much less than 90%

[brick]

I called in order to set up an opportunity to get multiple big bets in with a larger average equtiy edge.