$60: 88 bubble stop and go

[darinvg]

Button is raising fairly wide here. Stop and go?

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t400 with t25 antes (4 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

CO (t3605)
Button (t5405)
SB (t2080)
Hero (t2410)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="red">Button raises to t1200</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, Hero calls t800 and pushes any flop

[Luisgallo]

It is just a risky play on the bubble which I doubt is going to pay you more then just pushing.

IMO if you decide to play just push.

[kbar13]

I just push pre-flop. With more chips, like another BB, I might be inclined to stop and go.

[Crosby]

First thing that seems clear is that in general we need to get the money in one way or another. If he's insanely tight we get destroyed of course. If he pushes what he should, we make about as much as we lose if he pushes too tight, and tactically I think we want to get money in.

Moving on to your question. It interests me that he chose to raise to 1200 rather than making a very standard open push. Of course he might just always robotically raise to 3x, but had he been varying his raise sizes? I ask because the only relevant difference is that he is allowing you to make this play. If he is a thinking player, that would lead me to believe that you could make a read that his range is tight enough to just fold. Or perhaps he thinks it increases his fold equity and he's calling anything he raised with postflop anyway.

In any case, if you are going to play which I almost always would, I would suggest pushing.

[Pudge714]

SnG&gt;Push, but it isn't necessarily better than folding.

[Dan.]

[ QUOTE ]
SnG&gt;Push, but it isn't necessarily better than folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[Little John]

I'd just push preflop. Stacks sizes are going to be really nice once this guy doubles you up.

[Kibby]

I'm a lazy aggressive guy here. I fold but cry about it a little.

[citanul]

Just pushing preflop is obviously an outright mistake.

As for the hand, check what ICM says. If it says it's a good call if button had shoved preflop, then stop and go. If calling would be -ev, it's unlikely that the stop and go adds enough value to make it +ev.

c

[Crosby]

Hi, I think I could learn a lot from some more discussion on the stopngo here, I'd love it if some of you guys chime in. I'm sure I was wrong with my earlier comments and it's obv so I appreciate it if you'd take a moment.

Of course he'll call if we push, and he could fold if we stopngo, so that's just added fold equity plain and simple. However, how do you go about weighing that against the added gains from the doubleup? What % do you expect someone to fold the flop in a scenario very similar to this one? I must expect the average person to fold less than they actually do.

Also, I'd love any comments concerning my point on his openraise size. Considering it's an extremely standard openpush with the stack sizes involved, does anyone else consider the possibility that he wants to give rope to make the stopngo, and therefore has a tighter range? I just want to know how often people make that determination if at all so I don't go too far with my thinking. Clearly his earlier raises would provide a lot of data to help out here. I do think it would almost always be going too far to determine that he thinks he gains MORE fold equity by raising less just because he thinks we think he is encouraging a stopngo.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.