Small top pair in raised pot.

HighSteaks · #1 02-26-2007, 10:14 PM

I posted in this hand - pretty much got commited, and then was unsure what to do on this flop - suggestions appreciated.

PokerRoom 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (15.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 raises, Button folds, Hero ????

Aaron W. · #2 02-26-2007, 10:18 PM

3-bet, hold your breath, and see what happens next.

snikeris · #3 02-26-2007, 10:31 PM

why 3-bet instead of call and re-evaluate?

BigBadBabar · #4 02-26-2007, 10:36 PM

wow, i dump it immediately on that flop, given utg+1s limpreraise preflop and his check on the flop. 3betting is better than calling as my second option.

snik--because then if someone caps over us or a lot more action goes in we know we are beat, and can fold. if we just call call call all these bets and raises and the board keeps coming random low cards then we're gonna have to see showdown without ever really knowing where we are in the hand.

BigBadBabar · #5 02-26-2007, 10:58 PM

i see the merits in 3betting obviously, huge pot coming and we have a decent hand that is vulnerable and we want KQ and JT type hands out of there now. I am always just leery of the limpreraise. when he checks the flop i just got a feeling he's about to raise everyone again. maybe this is a result of my downswing. I suppose even if we're behind we have 3-4ish outs to improve on the turn.

Donkey Kong · #6 02-27-2007, 03:50 AM

Bah. Ugly situation. UTG+2 might be betting a FD, but MP2 certainly got something. And the PF limp-3-bettor is yet to act behind you. Seems like you're toast here.I'd fold this flop and move on to the next hand as I really dont like getting stuck in these kinds of situations.

BionicComma · #7 02-27-2007, 04:14 AM

I remember this example from SSHE. As I recall, the standard ABC line for TP weak kicker multiway vs a raise is to fold unless you have good draws to improve or a chance to isolate. Also, it depends on how good your TP is. Here you have a good kicker with a marginal TP, which is a trickier situation but still has the same evaluation criteria.

From an EV perspective, what are you beating (or could you beat later) that you want to c/r the flop to a 3bet? Without reads you can't assume that flop raiser is trying to isolate. Pitch this hand in this situation.

If I suspected the guy with position was raising something like overs or TP with a weak kicker as an isolation play, the 3bet lets you squeeze out the guys in the middle.

The fact that the A came on the turn doesn't factor in. That card culd have easily been a T-K and then where would you be? Not to mention that you are in against some hefty PF raising.

Fold to the flop raise.

I think the most important point to make in this thread is to make good decisions and dont second guess just because you missed a chance to get lucky.

Faluzure · #8 02-26-2007, 10:56 PM

Such weird action from UTG+1, at first it looks like AA or KK, now the flop check, wtf. UTG+2 seems to likely have a flush draw, and MP2 is representing an overpair, but not KK or AA, probably not QQ either. I think we're looking at TT, maybe JJ and should fold, unless MP2 is a psycho. With no reads, I fold, or at worst call and reevaluate on turn. I never 3 bet here.

HighSteaks · #9 02-27-2007, 03:47 AM

Check out what UTG 1 had [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

PokerRoom 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (15.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 raises, Button folds, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks.

River: (10.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Th 7h (high card, ace).
UTG+2 has 7s Js (high card, ace).
MP2 has Qs Ks (one pair, queens).
Outcome: MP2 wins 10.75 BB.

martybonus · #10 02-27-2007, 05:27 AM

:tl;dr grunch:

I spose the PF call is okay. It'll be 5 way to the flop. I guess you were stuck calling the third bet as well. But it's still 5 players in the pot. Someone with AA-QQ or AK is stoked. I think we're in trouble here unless the flop is very tasty. Would you coldcall wiht A9s in EP?

autfold on the flop. SUPER easy fold. Do you really see your weak TPTK standing up for the next two streets against PF and flop raisers? Cos I don't. Villains are very probably holding overpairs. This is a definite fold. It seems very, very unlikely you're going to win this with a pair of 9's. What in your villains's PFR and PF 3-bang range do you have beat?