River question. FR 30/60 stars Lo8

shaundeeb · #1 02-24-2007, 08:23 AM

Villian is evita peron, frequent player I enjoy seeing at the table often as evita tends to play more high card combos than some of the stronger players. Not sure if it matters to you but I thought it should matter at the river evita had 1.5BBs left. As for my thoughts, I tend to open limp a hand that when I flop with it I tend to have a scoop type hand if I can get it HU postflop. Flop standard bet, considered 3betting to hopefully get other player to drop but decided to see a turn and raise a lot of good turn cards where I prob improved to best hand 1 way. I was also worried about Ac2cxx hand from evita. Turn I think it's a nice time to fire and hopefully clean up a few outs. River was where I was unsure off after. I instabet but than was like if evita had some Ac2c3x type of hand that prob didn't pair up and my hand is good anyway, so I hated my bet and wish I just checked.

PokerStars 30/60 Omaha/8 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB raises, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB raises, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, BB calls.

River: (8.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets

wackjob · #2 02-24-2007, 03:07 PM

wow, i never play the stars 30, but i play a lot of FTP 30. i'd never limp this early position in a full game. the flop is tricky. you have no hand and you are praying someone else doesn't have the nut flush, or a better flush draw. your OESD is only to the nuts one way, and one way also makes a lo which you are extremely unlikely to win. I think this is one of those trouble hands where you just have to play perfectly to win anything, and you will still lose a lot of times. I have no problem with the turn bluff, other than the fact that they don't work that often. I think NOT betting the river would be a mistake after you have claimed a 10 since your bluff doesn't have to work that often to be +ev.

shaundeeb · #3 02-24-2007, 03:20 PM

your last line is what made me question the whole represent the 10 and bluff line. I think 95% of the time he folds the river I have him beat. I know spots like this are more clear in holdem where if I bet he calls with most hands that beat me and folds anything I am beating. So the bet is a waste.

wackjob · #4 02-24-2007, 03:53 PM

there are plenty of hands that might fold for another bet on the river, that will smoke you. imagine all the A2 paired hands bigger than 6, the offchance a Q folds, another A6. i've seen a lot of weird crap lately, but i've always regreted not following up my turn bluffs with a river bet.

ostholm · #5 02-24-2007, 03:28 PM

I lean towards not betting the river, dont know to much about playing at these limits do. Its like u state, if he has a A23x hand that didnt pair up u win. Dont see much value in betting since he will pretty much only call with the hands that beat u and u wont make him fold any reasonabel holding that beats u.

lwrunner103 · #6 02-24-2007, 03:44 PM

looks like a good value bet?

Buzz · #7 02-24-2007, 03:55 PM

Shaun - Evita raises before the flop, check/raises the flop, and then check/calls the turn. I'd be vaguely worried about AA2X, maybe with clubs.

Your river bet makes the pot about $540 or so.

Will Evita call for $60 (or even put in her remaining $90) on the river?

I don't know. I cannot imagine a good player not calling your river bet with any pair. (There's just too much in the pot here to let you steal when no low or club comes in on the river).

Given that Evita has a propensity for playing high combinations, does Evita pay off with AKXY without a queen?

I think the only way your river bet is good is if Evita calls with no pair or folds a hand with a pair. Either is possible, but seems unlikely.

I would check on the river after Evita's check. In that way you don't risk $90 (I presume you would call the $30 re-raise) and you are also assured the small bonus of getting to see Evita's hand.

Buzz

SweetLuckyMe · #8 02-24-2007, 06:23 PM

That's not a flop I want to see with your hand.
(anyone else not like limping with this hand UTG+1 at a full table?)

Check-call the flop and check behind on turn. If you want to make a play at the pot, then bet the river when you're checked to, or raise it when he bets. That's much more believable and the outlay to make the play is equal or less than the way you did it.

shaundeeb · #9 02-24-2007, 08:20 PM

I think the flop raise is mandatory and the easiest street this hand I want to get HU vs the PFR as unless he has Ac2cAx3x or some other sick monster I have good equity against him for half and some scoop combos. I also can sometimes make CO fold a better low draw or better clubs or a gutshot straight. Cleaning up my outs is a goal of mine when I play non nut hands.

cero_z · #10 02-25-2007, 02:16 PM

Hi shaun,

Pre-flop is gross, but with your super-tight image, you may be able to get away with it--you can probably effectively trim the field of slightly better low draws (like 23) on the flop.

Evita would've raised you every time on the turn if she had AA2/3, so unless she has like A288 or whatever, you have the best hand. I can't remember offhand if she'd try a bluff on complete air if you check this river, but I'm thinking not. To me, the clincher in favor of betting the river is that you can't get raised a full bet, and she's liable to throw in her case chips with certainly any pair, and maybe less.